Finalized Forms not anymore available in Edit Saved Form

Hi,

I would just like to know why after sending a Finalized form, it does not
show up anymore under "Edit Saved Form" but it only displays under "Delete
Saved Form" only. It used to display in an older version that we were
using.

We are doing assessments regularly for certain sites. And we keep reusing
data encoded previously so that it will be easier to send. It would be very
helpful if the data of the saved form can be reused during the next
assessment, rather than redoing everything from scratch.

Thanks.

Raul Maano

Raul,

The use case you describe was not the original envisioned scenario for
collect; therefore, it doesn't quite work the way you would like. If you
can use collect as it is today great. We are planning on supporting the use
case you describe in Collect 2.0, but I am not sure if we will port it back
to the Collect 1.x series.

In Collect 1.x when a user marks a form entry session as finalized Collect
assumes everything is complete and therefore it's safe to execute
problematic functionality if the data is incomplete. Two examples are: 1)
Encrypting the data so that the data is no longer readable on the device -
the user cannot even read what they entered a minute before because it's
fully encrypted; 2) Information sent to the server - most users do not want
an incomplete records on the server as merge dating incomplete data later
can be error prone as it's complex and extremely application specific. In
fact, Collect is designed so that after a finalized form is successfully
uploaded to a server, Collect could delete the instance automatically, but
it does not in an abundance of caution because data is precious to people.
We want to enable the ability if something goes wrong they can get the data
off the phone a second time. The UI is built for this style of operation
not marking data a finalized multiple times.

Again the use case you are talking about we plan to support in ODK 2.0
tools; however, ODK 2.0 tools are currently in development. If you can make
collect 1.2.1 work for you model great, if not you may have to wait for ODK
tools 2.0 for everything to work the way you want.

The small ODK team does our best to help you via our public email lists but
it may not be adequate for your needs. If you feel you need extra help and
support we recommend hiring a consulting companies listed on our website:
http://opendatakit.org/help/help-for-hire/.

Waylon

ยทยทยท On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Raul Maano wrote:

Hi,

I would just like to know why after sending a Finalized form, it does not
show up anymore under "Edit Saved Form" but it only displays under "Delete
Saved Form" only. It used to display in an older version that we were
using.

We are doing assessments regularly for certain sites. And we keep reusing
data encoded previously so that it will be easier to send. It would be very
helpful if the data of the saved form can be reused during the next
assessment, rather than redoing everything from scratch.

Thanks.

Raul Maano

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It used to work on a earlier version... ODK-Collect-1.1.7-RC2

But would not work on ODK-Collect-1.1.7 or even ODK Collect v1.2.1

ยทยทยท On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM, W. Brunette wrote:

Raul,

The use case you describe was not the original envisioned scenario for
collect; therefore, it doesn't quite work the way you would like. If you
can use collect as it is today great. We are planning on supporting the use
case you describe in Collect 2.0, but I am not sure if we will port it back
to the Collect 1.x series.

In Collect 1.x when a user marks a form entry session as finalized Collect
assumes everything is complete and therefore it's safe to execute
problematic functionality if the data is incomplete. Two examples are: 1)
Encrypting the data so that the data is no longer readable on the device -
the user cannot even read what they entered a minute before because it's
fully encrypted; 2) Information sent to the server - most users do not want
an incomplete records on the server as merge dating incomplete data later
can be error prone as it's complex and extremely application specific. In
fact, Collect is designed so that after a finalized form is successfully
uploaded to a server, Collect could delete the instance automatically, but
it does not in an abundance of caution because data is precious to people.
We want to enable the ability if something goes wrong they can get the data
off the phone a second time. The UI is built for this style of operation
not marking data a finalized multiple times.

Again the use case you are talking about we plan to support in ODK 2.0
tools; however, ODK 2.0 tools are currently in development. If you can make
collect 1.2.1 work for you model great, if not you may have to wait for ODK
tools 2.0 for everything to work the way you want.

The small ODK team does our best to help you via our public email lists
but it may not be adequate for your needs. If you feel you need extra help
and support we recommend hiring a consulting companies listed on our
website: http://opendatakit.org/help/help-for-hire/.

Waylon

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Raul Maano simplyraul@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

I would just like to know why after sending a Finalized form, it does not
show up anymore under "Edit Saved Form" but it only displays under "Delete
Saved Form" only. It used to display in an older version that we were
using.

We are doing assessments regularly for certain sites. And we keep reusing
data encoded previously so that it will be easier to send. It would be very
helpful if the data of the saved form can be reused during the next
assessment, rather than redoing everything from scratch.

Thanks.

Raul Maano

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I don't understand why you could delete, but not edit.

We are doing assessments for 40 sites per week. It would be very annoying
for us to keep doing the forms each time we assess for a certain site. We
used to just reload the saved (and sent) form and edit what has changed so
that we can send the data for the current assessment period.

Is it not the purpose of all this? To be able to efficiently and
effectively collect and reuse data?

I hope this features goes back to the app.

Thanks.

Raul

ยทยทยท On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Raul Maano wrote:

It used to work on a earlier version... ODK-Collect-1.1.7-RC2

But would not work on ODK-Collect-1.1.7 or even ODK Collect v1.2.1

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM, W. Brunette wbrunette@gmail.com wrote:

Raul,

The use case you describe was not the original envisioned scenario for
collect; therefore, it doesn't quite work the way you would like. If you
can use collect as it is today great. We are planning on supporting the use
case you describe in Collect 2.0, but I am not sure if we will port it back
to the Collect 1.x series.

In Collect 1.x when a user marks a form entry session as finalized
Collect assumes everything is complete and therefore it's safe to execute
problematic functionality if the data is incomplete. Two examples are: 1)
Encrypting the data so that the data is no longer readable on the device -
the user cannot even read what they entered a minute before because it's
fully encrypted; 2) Information sent to the server - most users do not want
an incomplete records on the server as merge dating incomplete data later
can be error prone as it's complex and extremely application specific. In
fact, Collect is designed so that after a finalized form is successfully
uploaded to a server, Collect could delete the instance automatically, but
it does not in an abundance of caution because data is precious to people.
We want to enable the ability if something goes wrong they can get the data
off the phone a second time. The UI is built for this style of operation
not marking data a finalized multiple times.

Again the use case you are talking about we plan to support in ODK 2.0
tools; however, ODK 2.0 tools are currently in development. If you can make
collect 1.2.1 work for you model great, if not you may have to wait for ODK
tools 2.0 for everything to work the way you want.

The small ODK team does our best to help you via our public email lists
but it may not be adequate for your needs. If you feel you need extra help
and support we recommend hiring a consulting companies listed on our
website: http://opendatakit.org/help/help-for-hire/.

Waylon

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Raul Maano simplyraul@gmail.comwrote:

Hi,

I would just like to know why after sending a Finalized form, it does
not show up anymore under "Edit Saved Form" but it only displays under
"Delete Saved Form" only. It used to display in an older version that we
were using.

We are doing assessments regularly for certain sites. And we keep
reusing data encoded previously so that it will be easier to send. It would
be very helpful if the data of the saved form can be reused during the next
assessment, rather than redoing everything from scratch.

Thanks.

Raul Maano

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Raul,

If you would like to make sure the use case you are concerned about makes
it into ODK I highly suggest filling out the survey. The ODK team is
seeking to gather information about how the current tools are being used
and how they could be imrpoved to enable future design decisions to better
reflect our customers actual use cases and needs.

The survey is available here:
https://catalyst.uw.edu/webq/survey/nixdell/175976

Waylon

ยทยทยท On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Raul Maano wrote:

I don't understand why you could delete, but not edit.

We are doing assessments for 40 sites per week. It would be very annoying
for us to keep doing the forms each time we assess for a certain site. We
used to just reload the saved (and sent) form and edit what has changed so
that we can send the data for the current assessment period.

Is it not the purpose of all this? To be able to efficiently and
effectively collect and reuse data?

I hope this features goes back to the app.

Thanks.

Raul

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Raul Maano simplyraul@gmail.com wrote:

It used to work on a earlier version... ODK-Collect-1.1.7-RC2

But would not work on ODK-Collect-1.1.7 or even ODK Collect v1.2.1

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM, W. Brunette wbrunette@gmail.com wrote:

Raul,

The use case you describe was not the original envisioned scenario for
collect; therefore, it doesn't quite work the way you would like. If you
can use collect as it is today great. We are planning on supporting the use
case you describe in Collect 2.0, but I am not sure if we will port it back
to the Collect 1.x series.

In Collect 1.x when a user marks a form entry session as finalized
Collect assumes everything is complete and therefore it's safe to execute
problematic functionality if the data is incomplete. Two examples are: 1)
Encrypting the data so that the data is no longer readable on the device -
the user cannot even read what they entered a minute before because it's
fully encrypted; 2) Information sent to the server - most users do not want
an incomplete records on the server as merge dating incomplete data later
can be error prone as it's complex and extremely application specific. In
fact, Collect is designed so that after a finalized form is successfully
uploaded to a server, Collect could delete the instance automatically, but
it does not in an abundance of caution because data is precious to people.
We want to enable the ability if something goes wrong they can get the data
off the phone a second time. The UI is built for this style of operation
not marking data a finalized multiple times.

Again the use case you are talking about we plan to support in ODK 2.0
tools; however, ODK 2.0 tools are currently in development. If you can make
collect 1.2.1 work for you model great, if not you may have to wait for ODK
tools 2.0 for everything to work the way you want.

The small ODK team does our best to help you via our public email lists
but it may not be adequate for your needs. If you feel you need extra help
and support we recommend hiring a consulting companies listed on our
website: http://opendatakit.org/help/help-for-hire/.

Waylon

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Raul Maano simplyraul@gmail.comwrote:

Hi,

I would just like to know why after sending a Finalized form, it does
not show up anymore under "Edit Saved Form" but it only displays under
"Delete Saved Form" only. It used to display in an older version that we
were using.

We are doing assessments regularly for certain sites. And we keep
reusing data encoded previously so that it will be easier to send. It would
be very helpful if the data of the saved form can be reused during the next
assessment, rather than redoing everything from scratch.

Thanks.

Raul Maano

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Done already.

ยทยทยท On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 12:55 AM, W. Brunette wrote:

Raul,

If you would like to make sure the use case you are concerned about makes
it into ODK I highly suggest filling out the survey. The ODK team is
seeking to gather information about how the current tools are being used
and how they could be imrpoved to enable future design decisions to better
reflect our customers actual use cases and needs.

The survey is available here:
https://catalyst.uw.edu/webq/survey/nixdell/175976

Waylon

On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Raul Maano simplyraul@gmail.com wrote:

I don't understand why you could delete, but not edit.

We are doing assessments for 40 sites per week. It would be very
annoying for us to keep doing the forms each time we assess for a certain
site. We used to just reload the saved (and sent) form and edit what has
changed so that we can send the data for the current assessment period.

Is it not the purpose of all this? To be able to efficiently and
effectively collect and reuse data?

I hope this features goes back to the app.

Thanks.

Raul

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Raul Maano simplyraul@gmail.com wrote:

It used to work on a earlier version... ODK-Collect-1.1.7-RC2

But would not work on ODK-Collect-1.1.7 or even ODK Collect v1.2.1

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM, W. Brunette wbrunette@gmail.comwrote:

Raul,

The use case you describe was not the original envisioned scenario for
collect; therefore, it doesn't quite work the way you would like. If you
can use collect as it is today great. We are planning on supporting the use
case you describe in Collect 2.0, but I am not sure if we will port it back
to the Collect 1.x series.

In Collect 1.x when a user marks a form entry session as finalized
Collect assumes everything is complete and therefore it's safe to execute
problematic functionality if the data is incomplete. Two examples are: 1)
Encrypting the data so that the data is no longer readable on the device -
the user cannot even read what they entered a minute before because it's
fully encrypted; 2) Information sent to the server - most users do not want
an incomplete records on the server as merge dating incomplete data later
can be error prone as it's complex and extremely application specific. In
fact, Collect is designed so that after a finalized form is successfully
uploaded to a server, Collect could delete the instance automatically, but
it does not in an abundance of caution because data is precious to people.
We want to enable the ability if something goes wrong they can get the data
off the phone a second time. The UI is built for this style of operation
not marking data a finalized multiple times.

Again the use case you are talking about we plan to support in ODK 2.0
tools; however, ODK 2.0 tools are currently in development. If you can make
collect 1.2.1 work for you model great, if not you may have to wait for ODK
tools 2.0 for everything to work the way you want.

The small ODK team does our best to help you via our public email lists
but it may not be adequate for your needs. If you feel you need extra help
and support we recommend hiring a consulting companies listed on our
website: http://opendatakit.org/help/help-for-hire/.

Waylon

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Raul Maano simplyraul@gmail.comwrote:

Hi,

I would just like to know why after sending a Finalized form, it does
not show up anymore under "Edit Saved Form" but it only displays under
"Delete Saved Form" only. It used to display in an older version that we
were using.

We are doing assessments regularly for certain sites. And we keep
reusing data encoded previously so that it will be easier to send. It would
be very helpful if the data of the saved form can be reused during the next
assessment, rather than redoing everything from scratch.

Thanks.

Raul Maano

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I updated the ODK Collect version (to v1.8 or v1.14) in several tablets and I faced a problem.
After filling an form, the finalized forms not anymore available in "Edit Saved Form". How to fix this issue ?
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Karim

Hi @Karim_Derra
I tried to reproduce the problem you reported. What I did?

  1. I installed ODK Collect v1.8
  2. Then I filled a few forms and saved
  3. Then I updated to ODK Collect v1.14.1 and saved a few forms

everything works well.

Do you see Form successfully saved! message after finalizing your form?
What about saving not finalized forms?
Is it possible you have Auto send option enabled and your forms are sent immediately after finalizing them and you didn't notice that?

1 Like

Thanks @Grzesiek2010.
You are right but in case where you are using ODK Collect only.
In our case, we are collecting data with OpenHDS mobile which call ODK Collect to fill the form. When you close OpenHDS mobile and come to the ODK Collect, you did not find the form. I understand now, it is related to the OpenHDS.
With the previous version of ODK, itโ€™s worked well.