Hello,
this is more of a general question - does anyone have an opinion on whether
ODK could be re-created using
something like PhoneGap (www.phonegap.com)? This would allow ODK to reach
more platforms- iphone, blackberry etc. - I have heard
you can use sensors to make use of the phone's native GPS and Camera.
Any thoughts would be welcome.
Thank you,
Sanjay Patel
Sanjay,
The very first version of ODK (before it was even called ODK) did
exactly this -- it was a web page with hooks for native code. We
deployed a version of that in Uganda and ended up scrapping it and
going with native Android. Recently, we've returned to this idea and
have some very experimental code for Collect that does something
similar with HTML5 and JS.
Whether or not this is the best way forward remains to be seen. We try
to hitch ODK to promising technology trends and certainly for big
players like Google (at least on non-Android platforms) and Facebook
(on all platforms), shell apps are the way to go. In the data
collection space, Pendragon Forms
(http://pendragonsoftware.com/formsviinfo/index.html) has HTML5
support with native hooks. JQueryMobile (http://jquerymobile.com/)
also has a good head start on web forms in the mobile browser.
That said, all this technology is very young and not well-sorted. My
biggest complaint is that it's all very slow to use and results in a
sub-optimal user experience. http://sandofsky.com/blog/shell-apps.html
has a great post that lays out some of the arguments against shell
apps.
I'd love to hear what others think...
Yaw
I'm in the native app camp. Imho, odk should capitalize on Android toolset,
even leveraging sync adapters instead of the current roll your own upload
methods. If someone wants to make an iPhone app they should go ahead, it's
an open source app and idea. Blackberry is out. I would also like to see
the aggregate app engine side integrate with other open formats like json.
HTML5 is okay with 4g, but nothing beats native, especially if you are
without a connection in the field.
Sanjay,
The very first version of ODK (before it was even called ODK) did
exactly this -- it was a web page with hooks for native code. We
deployed a version of that in Uganda and ended up scrapping it and
going with native Android. Recently, we've returned to this idea and
have some very experimental code for Collect that does something
similar with HTML5 and JS.Whether or not this is the best way forward remains to be seen. We try
to hitch ODK to promising technology trends and certainly for big
players like Google (at least on non-Android platforms) and Facebook
(on all platforms), shell apps are the way to go. In the data
collection space, Pendragon Forms
(http://pendragonsoftware.com/formsviinfo/index.html) has HTML5
support with native hooks. JQueryMobile (http://jquerymobile.com/)
also has a good head start on web forms in the mobile browser.That said, all this technology is very young and not well-sorted. My
biggest complaint is that it's all very slow to use and results in a
sub-optimal user experience. http://sandofsky.com/blog/shell-apps.html
has a great post that lays out some of the arguments against shell
apps.I'd love to hear what others think...
Yaw
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Sanjay Patel svpatel808@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
this is more of a general question - does anyone have an opinion on
whether
ODK could be re-created using
something like PhoneGap (www.phonegap.com)? This would allow ODK to
reach
more platforms- iphone, blackberry etc. - I have heard
you can use sensors to make use of the phone's native GPS and Camera.Any thoughts would be welcome.
Thank you,Sanjay Patel
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Hi all,
my 2cents ....
I would like to see a more shell apps approach, but as already pointed out
the technology is not quite there yet to be a dependable replacement for
native apps (maybe in the near-ish future?).
On the project I'm working on
(http://opendatakit.org/2011/10/using-odk-to-improve-maternal-care-in-ethiopia/)
using ODK, we have started to use an HTML5 app (run in the mobile browser
rather than as phonegap or similar) to deliver dashboard/analytics
information (see:
http://digital-campus.org/developing-an-analytics-dashboard-for-maternal-care/
for more info). The advantage for us is that we can allow users with or
without Android devices (such as managers/supervisors in the health
bureaus) to access this on their normal desktop/laptops, even if they have
an intermittent internet connection since the data is cached in the
browser. Admittedly, this dashboard is quite simple/read-only and doesn't
require access to device GPS, camera etc, but this approach (using a
mixture of native/shell wherever is most appropriate) seems to be working
well for us so far.
Cheers,
Alex
I am a huge fan of the theory behind shell apps, but in my previous
experience performance has been a significant problem. We've used
Titanium (http://www.appcelerator.com/) to build cross platform apps but
then had to spend a significant amount of time rewriting and tuning them
for performance. The slowdowns were because we had proxied access to
native libraries, and these problems went away when writing native code.
sardeenz wrote:
--
Peter Lubell-Doughtie
Earth Institute, Columbia University
I'm actually prototyping a HTML5-based variant of ODK Collect.
PhoneGap (now the Apache Cordova incubator project) is not yet stable
enough for building reliable Android apps. The native-features interfaces
also seem to be more complex than appears necessary; I think it may be
trying too hard to handle platforms that don't provide substantially all
the HTML5 embedded browser functionality. There is some talk of a Cordova
2.0 which might be leaner and more appropriate.
More problematic, I've found that our Android 2.x Droid phone cannot
support jQuery or jQuery mobile-based HTML5 apps -- they end up crashing
deep in the bowels of the webpage renderer. Android 4.0 works somewhat
better. Gesture detection (swipeleft, swiperight) within the javascript is
a problem with both phones.
So for the prototype I've switched to zepto.js and jqTouch libraries, which
work on 2.x upward, and an ODK-specific callback mechanism for accessing
the native functionality.
Mitch
Hi all,
my 2cents ....
I would like to see a more shell apps approach, but as already pointed out
the technology is not quite there yet to be a dependable replacement for
native apps (maybe in the near-ish future?).On the project I'm working on (
http://opendatakit.org/2011/10/using-odk-to-improve-maternal-care-in-ethiopia/)
using ODK, we have started to use an HTML5 app (run in the mobile browser
rather than as phonegap or similar) to deliver dashboard/analytics
information (see:
http://digital-campus.org/developing-an-analytics-dashboard-for-maternal-care/for more info). The advantage for us is that we can allow users with or
without Android devices (such as managers/supervisors in the health
bureaus) to access this on their normal desktop/laptops, even if they have
an intermittent internet connection since the data is cached in the
browser. Admittedly, this dashboard is quite simple/read-only and doesn't
require access to device GPS, camera etc, but this approach (using a
mixture of native/shell wherever is most appropriate) seems to be working
well for us so far.Cheers,
AlexOn Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:26:20 AM UTC+2, Sanjay wrote:
Hello,
this is more of a general question - does anyone have an opinion on
whether ODK could be re-created using
something like PhoneGap (www.phonegap.com)? This would allow ODK to
reach more platforms- iphone, blackberry etc. - I have heard
you can use sensors to make use of the phone's native GPS and Camera.Any thoughts would be welcome.
Thank you,Sanjay Patel
www.webfirst.comOn Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:26:20 AM UTC+2, Sanjay wrote:
Hello,
this is more of a general question - does anyone have an opinion on
whether ODK could be re-created using
something like PhoneGap (www.phonegap.com)? This would allow ODK to
reach more platforms- iphone, blackberry etc. - I have heard
you can use sensors to make use of the phone's native GPS and Camera.Any thoughts would be welcome.
Thank you,Sanjay Patel
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Mitch Sundt
Software Engineer
University of Washington
mitchellsundt@gmail.com
For those also considering Titanium's Appcelerator, Kevin Whinnery
just posted a explanation of how it differs from PhoneGap.
It is still very early stages. We're trying to settle on what the HTML
should look like for the form and how a new XLSForm would generate that.
It will run on Android 2.2 and newer. I haven't thought much about how to
publish data back into Aggregate, so that is broken at this point. It may
or may not publish using the OpenRosa standards -- we may instead decide to
use the synchronization API we have developed for ODK Tables, which this
would be released with.
Anything I gave you would unstable and I could not provide any support on
upgrades to more stable versions.
We are aiming to have something in an early beta condition by September.
Ping me as that gets closer, and I can point you to that code. But expect
migrations to be somewhat painful if you decide to try out the beta.
Mitch
Mitch, where are you on this? I would be very interested in trying it out.
On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 11:08:28 AM UTC-6, Mitch wrote:
I'm actually prototyping a HTML5-based variant of ODK Collect.
PhoneGap (now the Apache Cordova incubator project) is not yet stable
enough for building reliable Android apps. The native-features interfaces
also seem to be more complex than appears necessary; I think it may be
trying too hard to handle platforms that don't provide substantially
all the HTML5 embedded browser functionality. There is some talk of a
Cordova 2.0 which might be leaner and more appropriate.More problematic, I've found that our Android 2.x Droid phone cannot
support jQuery or jQuery mobile-based HTML5 apps -- they end up crashing
deep in the bowels of the webpage renderer. Android 4.0 works somewhat
better. Gesture detection (swipeleft, swiperight) within the javascript is
a problem with both phones.So for the prototype I've switched to zepto.js and jqTouch
libraries, which work on 2.x upward, and an ODK-specific callback mechanism
for accessing the native functionality.Mitch
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Alex Little <alex@alexlittle.net> wrote:
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all,
my 2cents ....
I would like to see a more shell apps approach, but as already pointed
out the technology is not quite there yet to be a dependable replacement
for native apps (maybe in the near-ish future?).On the project I'm working on (http://opendatakit.org/2011/10/using-odk-to-improve-maternal-care-in-ethiopia/)
using ODK, we have started to use an HTML5 app (run in the mobile browser
rather than as phonegap or similar) to deliver dashboard/analytics
information (see: http://digital-campus.org/developing-an-analytics-dashboard-for-maternal-care/
for more info). The advantage for us is that we can allow users with or
without Android devices (such as managers/supervisors in the health
bureaus) to access this on their normal desktop/laptops, even if they have
an intermittent internet connection since the data is cached in the
browser. Admittedly, this dashboard is quite simple/read-only and
doesn't require access to device GPS, camera etc, but this approach
(using a mixture of native/shell wherever is most appropriate) seems to be
working well for us so far.Cheers,
AlexOn Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:26:20 AM UTC+2, Sanjay wrote:
Hello,this is more of a general question - does anyone have an opinion on
whether ODK could be re-created using
something like PhoneGap (www.phonegap.com)? This would allow ODK to reach more
platforms- iphone, blackberry etc. - I have heardyou can use sensors to make use of the phone's native GPS and Camera.
Any thoughts would be welcome.
Thank you,Sanjay Patel
www.webfirst.comOn Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:26:20 AM UTC+2, Sanjay wrote:
Hello,this is more of a general question - does anyone have an opinion on
whether ODK could be re-created using
something like PhoneGap (www.phonegap.com)? This would allow ODK to reach more
platforms- iphone, blackberry etc. - I have heardyou can use sensors to make use of the phone's native GPS and Camera.
Any thoughts would be welcome.
Thank you,Sanjay Patel
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mitchellsundt@gmail.com--
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Mitch Sundt
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University of Washington
mitchellsundt@gmail.com
Vivek,
The code is still in early stages as things rapidly change day to day.
Once the design has been more formalized and most of the design
choices have been worked out so the code converges we will be sharing
it. Currently the code may look radically different in 3 days and we
are in the prototype and refine mode right now.
Waylon
>> >> >> > Hi all, >> >> > >> >> > my 2cents .... >> >> > >> >> > I would like to see a more shell apps approach, but as already pointed out the technology is not quite there yet to be a dependable replacement for native apps (maybe in the near-ish future?). >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On the project I'm working on (http://opendatakit.org/2011/10/using-odk-to-improve-maternal-care-in-ethiopia/) using ODK, we have started to use an HTML5 app (run in the mobile browser rather than as phonegap or similar) to deliver dashboard/analytics information (see: http://digital-campus.org/developing-an-analytics-dashboard-for-maternal-care/ for more info). The advantage for us is that we can allow users with or without Android devices (such as managers/supervisors in the health bureaus) to access this on their normal desktop/laptops, even if they have an intermittent internet connection since the data is cached in the browser. Admittedly, this dashboard is quite simple/read-only and doesn't require access to device GPS, camera etc, but this approach (using a mixture of native/shell wherever is most appropriate) seems to be working well for us so far. >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Cheers, >> >> > Alex >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:26:20 AM UTC+2, Sanjay wrote:>> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Mitch Sundt >> >> > Software Engineer >> >> > University of Washington >> >> > mitche...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Post: opend...@googlegroups.com >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit...@googlegroups.com >> >> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mitch Sundt >> Software Engineer >> University of Washington >> mitche...@gmail.com > > -- > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en>> >> >> > Hello, >> >> > >> >> > this is more of a general question - does anyone have an opinion on whether ODK could be re-created using >> >> > something like PhoneGap (www.phonegap.com)? This would allow ODK to reach more platforms- iphone, blackberry etc. - I have heard >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > you can use sensors to make use of the phone's native GPS and Camera. >> >> >> > >> >> > Any thoughts would be welcome. >> >> > Thank you, >> >> > >> >> > Sanjay Patel >> >> > www.webfirst.com >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:26:20 AM UTC+2, Sanjay wrote:>> >> >> > Hello, >> >> > >> >> > this is more of a general question - does anyone have an opinion on whether ODK could be re-created using >> >> > something like PhoneGap (www.phonegap.com)? This would allow ODK to reach more platforms- iphone, blackberry etc. - I have heard >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > you can use sensors to make use of the phone's native GPS and Camera. >> >> >> > >> >> > Any thoughts would be welcome. >> >> > Thank you, >> >> > >> >> > Sanjay Patel >> >> > www.webfirst.com >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > >> >> > Post: opend...@googlegroups.com >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en >> >> >> >> > >> >> >