# Missing Entity ID with form that can create or update Entities **URL:** \ **Category:** Support\ **Tags:** entities, odk-xlsform\ **Created:** [May 5, 2026, 10:09pm UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073 "2026-05-05T22:09:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mathieubossaert](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/mathieubossaert/32/6131_2.png) [@mathieubossaert](https://forum.getodk.org/u/mathieubossaert)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2026, 10:09pm UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/1 "2026-05-05T22:09:52Z")
Here's the form Hélène, the entities (ouvrages\_inventories.csv), the rejected submission with error (Required parameter uuid missing.) and a needed csv file -unites\_hydrauliques.csv) [ouvrages\_hydrauliques.xlsx](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/ujyb1lfXiCkDmesSyJcAvrNRoBw.xlsx) (472,5 Ko) [ouvrages\_inventories.csv](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/uZ7Fs5p3OUCZybWDehPBe3GF6jD.csv) (268,7 Ko) [uuid\_6e5a5474-b9d4-4418-8700-0dac84425609.xml](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/3RiSBwhz5VddckX1J2iCwlnhyBo.xml) (1,9 Ko) [unites\_hydrauliques.csv](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/fCOqeSJ2J51kAAjiubMlktVBMC9.csv) (1,2 Ko) Maybe there are some unneeded not working tries (calculates) but with no impact I think on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![mathieubossaert](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/mathieubossaert/32/6131_2.png) [@mathieubossaert](https://forum.getodk.org/u/mathieubossaert)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2026, 8:24am UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/2 "2026-05-06T08:24:20Z")
> [@mathieubossaert](#): > > [ouvrages\_hydrauliques.xlsx](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/ujyb1lfXiCkDmesSyJcAvrNRoBw.xlsx) (472,5 Ko) > [ouvrages\_inventories.csv](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/uZ7Fs5p3OUCZybWDehPBe3GF6jD.csv) (268,7 Ko) > [uuid\_6e5a5474-b9d4-4418-8700-0dac84425609.xml](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/3RiSBwhz5VddckX1J2iCwlnhyBo.xml) (1,9 Ko) > [unites\_hydrauliques.csv](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/fCOqeSJ2J51kAAjiubMlktVBMC9.csv) (1,2 Ko) > Maybe there are some unneeded not working tries (calculates) but with no impact I think on the issue. I updated both form definition and submission as the error occurs without the repeat. ---
**Author:** ![LN](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/ln/32/1605_2.png) [@LN](https://forum.getodk.org/u/LN)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2026, 5:28pm UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/3 "2026-05-06T17:28:55Z")
It looks like there is no Entity id generated when the `create_if` condition is true. On the Entities sheet, the `entity_id` is set to `${ouvrage_suivi}`. That's an Entity selection field with a relevance condition of `${action} = 'suivi' or ${action} = 'modification'`. You might think there's a fallback to a UUID in case the `entity_id` value is blank but that's not currently the case -- you're responsible for making sure that the `entity_id` reference is always set in the way you want it. In your case, you can change the `entity_id` expression to `coalesce(${ouvrage_suivi}, uuid())`. This uses `${ouvrage_suivi}` if it has a value or generates a new uuid otherwise. Another way to write the same thing is `if(${ouvrage_suivi} != '', ${ouvrage_suivi}, uuid())`. We have the following docs on this: - [Quick reference](https://docs.getodk.org/entities-quick-reference/#create-or-update) - [Central Entities docs](https://docs.getodk.org/central-entities/#creating-and-updating-entities-with-one-form) Maybe we should add a troubleshooting section that specifically calls this out? It's not very intuitive so I'd love any suggestions you have for improvement. I do think it's probably something Collect should detect and at least warn about as well. ---
**Author:** ![mathieubossaert](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/mathieubossaert/32/6131_2.png) [@mathieubossaert](https://forum.getodk.org/u/mathieubossaert)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2026, 6:48pm UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/4 "2026-05-06T18:48:15Z")
Thanks Hélène ! I misunderstood the usage of the entity\_id column of the entities sheet. I thought it was only used for entities updates, not that it was used to set the id of a new one, as this column is not needed for entity creation. ---
**Author:** ![mathieubossaert](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/mathieubossaert/32/6131_2.png) [@mathieubossaert](https://forum.getodk.org/u/mathieubossaert)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2026, 6:49pm UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/5 "2026-05-06T18:49:11Z")
I'll try it as soon as I'll be back tonthe office. ---
**Author:** ![ahblake](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/ahblake/32/22392_2.png) [@ahblake](https://forum.getodk.org/u/ahblake)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 12:39am UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/6 "2026-05-07T00:39:47Z")
> [@mathieubossaert](#): > > I misunderstood the usage of the entity\_id column of the entities sheet. I also had this slightly wrong in my head until I tried to create a form that would mix multiple lists where some were create only and some were create/update. Now I know to leave `entity_id create_if update_if` blank for those that only create, but must populate them all correctly for create&update. I also wiped out some entity item fields during testing for a create/update case, as I incorrectly set relevance on both the group containing the `save_to` values and the individual fields within - as I understand it now, only if I make the group relevant, will an entity create/update, and within this, depending on which fields are also relevant, certain values will get created or updated. As an example - a form that can do the following two actions needs the save\_to group relevant for both as `create = yes OR clarify = yes` but then also has to make the various save\_to fields relevant as `create = yes` for some and `clarify = yes` for one. 1. submit a new item: will create an entity and populates a number of fields for it 2. view an existing item and optionally submit a clarification: will lookup an entity but optionally update only one field for it ---
**Author:** ![mathieubossaert](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/mathieubossaert/32/6131_2.png) [@mathieubossaert](https://forum.getodk.org/u/mathieubossaert)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2026, 5:53am UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/7 "2026-05-07T05:53:12Z")
Thanks a lot Andrew ! ---
**Author:** ![mathieubossaert](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/mathieubossaert/32/6131_2.png) [@mathieubossaert](https://forum.getodk.org/u/mathieubossaert)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2026, 9:47am UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/8 "2026-05-11T09:47:25Z")
Thanks a lot @LN, everything works fine now ! ---
**Author:** ![Akum\_Aveika](https://getodk.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/forum.getodk.org/akum_aveika/32/19042_2.png) [@Akum\_Aveika](https://forum.getodk.org/u/Akum_Aveika)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 3:10am UTC](https://forum.getodk.org/t/missing-entity-id-with-form-that-can-create-or-update-entities/58073/9 "2026-06-04T03:10:32Z")
I followed this topic but have not been able resolved my Entity issues. The are 2 begin repeats. 1 nested in other Household and deaths are the entities are in to have. Issues: If you visit "only" 1 household and do repeats in death. Both entities will be created However if you visit more than 1 household and do at least one death, no entity is created. the current message I am geting is "Failed to process 4 entities in submission due to 1 errors: (Entity 2) Required parameter uuid missing" she xlxs attached [AkumFredTesting2.xlsx](https://forum.getodk.org/uploads/short-url/euGnmP8cuxj7qtiomkIjzIlzgyP.xlsx) (57.8 KB)