Currently, they have a curious/crude-but-effective workflow that uses
MS Access (!) + VB scripting, that emits XML defining an entire
survey, which in turn is read and executed by a J2ME runtime on their
inventory of a few hundred Windows mobile PDAs. GPS is via Bluetooth
to Holux devices.
These surveys can be very large, in Asian and Arabic languages, and
have fairly rigorous validation requirements and directed graph
branching capabilities. Field data collection can be stored and
encrypted in removable MicroSD cards in case the field technicians are
(no joke!) robbed or collecting sensitive information, and exported as
XML, with translators to Oracle, SAS, etc.
Gotta say, clunky as the overall workflow might be, the Access form
builder is a really nice drag/drop tool, and almost makes that worth
it. Surveys are defined in the Access database, and can be reused, or
chunks of the graph.
Is this something ODK might be enhanced to handle, particularly the
PDA requirement with either the IBM J9 or other suitable J2ME (i.e.
non-Android; Blackberry is very interesting too..) runtime?
if you can modify the access thing to spit out xforms, you can then
use odk collect on android and javarosa on j2me devices (including on
a blackberry).
large surveys with logic shouldn't be a problem. language support on
android for some languages is weak but there are good workarounds.
encryption can be supported -- dimagi has code that does this.
exporting the responses to other formats is pretty simple to do.
i think that covers it, no?
···
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 21:42, Chris wrote:
> greetings -
>
> I am working with WFP to revamp their field data collection tool in
> the context of the upcoming RHOK effort in a few weeks, as per:
>
> http://www.wiki.rhok.org/Vulnerability_and_Mapping_field_survey_tool_rework
>
> Currently, they have a curious/crude-but-effective workflow that uses
> MS Access (!) + VB scripting, that emits XML defining an entire
> survey, which in turn is read and executed by a J2ME runtime on their
> inventory of a few hundred Windows mobile PDAs. GPS is via Bluetooth
> to Holux devices.
>
> These surveys can be very large, in Asian and Arabic languages, and
> have fairly rigorous validation requirements and directed graph
> branching capabilities. Field data collection can be stored and
> encrypted in removable MicroSD cards in case the field technicians are
> (no joke!) robbed or collecting sensitive information, and exported as
> XML, with translators to Oracle, SAS, etc.
>
> Gotta say, clunky as the overall workflow might be, the Access form
> builder is a really nice drag/drop tool, and almost makes that worth
> it. Surveys are defined in the Access database, and can be reused, or
> chunks of the graph.
>
> Is this something ODK might be enhanced to handle, particularly the
> PDA requirement with either the IBM J9 or other suitable J2ME (i.e.
> non-Android; Blackberry is very interesting too..) runtime?
>
> thanks in advance -
> Chris Nicholas
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
Thank you for the prompt reply. Excellent suggestion; I will look more
closely at XForms, and the subset supported by Rosa.
Again, the initial target runtime is not Android; it is a Windows
mobile 6 PDA running a J2ME runtime
(i.e. Mysaifu, IBM J9, phoneME, etc). And I need to look more closely
at your GUI form designer; does it support directed graph development
(i.e. if they answer "no" to a particular question, or some expression
(i.e. they raise goats and sheep so don't ask questions about birds
and fish), and can subgraphs be reused?
thanks!
Chris
···
On Nov 19, 10:18 pm, Yaw Anokwa wrote:
> if you can modify the access thing to spit out xforms, you can then
> use odk collect on android and javarosa on j2me devices (including on
> a blackberry).
>
> large surveys with logic shouldn't be a problem. language support on
> android for some languages is weak but there are good workarounds.
> encryption can be supported -- dimagi has code that does this.
> exporting the responses to other formats is pretty simple to do.
>
> i think that covers it, no?
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 21:42, Chris wrote:
> > greetings -
>
> > I am working with WFP to revamp their field data collection tool in
> > the context of the upcoming RHOK effort in a few weeks, as per:
>
> >http://www.wiki.rhok.org/Vulnerability_and_Mapping_field_survey_tool_...
>
> > Currently, they have a curious/crude-but-effective workflow that uses
> > MS Access (!) + VB scripting, that emits XML defining an entire
> > survey, which in turn is read and executed by a J2ME runtime on their
> > inventory of a few hundred Windows mobile PDAs. GPS is via Bluetooth
> > to Holux devices.
>
> > These surveys can be very large, in Asian and Arabic languages, and
> > have fairly rigorous validation requirements and directed graph
> > branching capabilities. Field data collection can be stored and
> > encrypted in removable MicroSD cards in case the field technicians are
> > (no joke!) robbed or collecting sensitive information, and exported as
> > XML, with translators to Oracle, SAS, etc.
>
> > Gotta say, clunky as the overall workflow might be, the Access form
> > builder is a really nice drag/drop tool, and almost makes that worth
> > it. Surveys are defined in the Access database, and can be reused, or
> > chunks of the graph.
>
> > Is this something ODK might be enhanced to handle, particularly the
> > PDA requirement with either the IBM J9 or other suitable J2ME (i.e.
> > non-Android; Blackberry is very interesting too..) runtime?
>
> > thanks in advance -
> > Chris Nicholas
>
> > --
> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
you should be able to run javarosa on the j2me runtime. i'm betting
it's a not-great user experience, but it should work. maybe the
javarosa guys can comment on how reasonably it works.
···
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 09:03, Chris wrote:
> Thank you for the prompt reply. Excellent suggestion; I will look more
> closely at XForms, and the subset supported by Rosa.
>
> Again, the initial target runtime is *not* Android; it is a Windows
> mobile 6 PDA running a J2ME runtime
> (i.e. Mysaifu, IBM J9, phoneME, etc). And I need to look more closely
> at your GUI form designer; does it support directed graph development
> (i.e. if they answer "no" to a particular question, or some expression
> (i.e. they raise goats and sheep so don't ask questions about birds
> and fish), and can subgraphs be reused?
>
> thanks!
> Chris
>
> On Nov 19, 10:18 pm, Yaw Anokwa wrote:
>> if you can modify the access thing to spit out xforms, you can then
>> use odk collect on android and javarosa on j2me devices (including on
>> a blackberry).
>>
>> large surveys with logic shouldn't be a problem. language support on
>> android for some languages is weak but there are good workarounds.
>> encryption can be supported -- dimagi has code that does this.
>> exporting the responses to other formats is pretty simple to do.
>>
>> i think that covers it, no?
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 21:42, Chris wrote:
>> > greetings -
>>
>> > I am working with WFP to revamp their field data collection tool in
>> > the context of the upcoming RHOK effort in a few weeks, as per:
>>
>> >http://www.wiki.rhok.org/Vulnerability_and_Mapping_field_survey_tool_...
>>
>> > Currently, they have a curious/crude-but-effective workflow that uses
>> > MS Access (!) + VB scripting, that emits XML defining an entire
>> > survey, which in turn is read and executed by a J2ME runtime on their
>> > inventory of a few hundred Windows mobile PDAs. GPS is via Bluetooth
>> > to Holux devices.
>>
>> > These surveys can be very large, in Asian and Arabic languages, and
>> > have fairly rigorous validation requirements and directed graph
>> > branching capabilities. Field data collection can be stored and
>> > encrypted in removable MicroSD cards in case the field technicians are
>> > (no joke!) robbed or collecting sensitive information, and exported as
>> > XML, with translators to Oracle, SAS, etc.
>>
>> > Gotta say, clunky as the overall workflow might be, the Access form
>> > builder is a really nice drag/drop tool, and almost makes that worth
>> > it. Surveys are defined in the Access database, and can be reused, or
>> > chunks of the graph.
>>
>> > Is this something ODK might be enhanced to handle, particularly the
>> > PDA requirement with either the IBM J9 or other suitable J2ME (i.e.
>> > non-Android; Blackberry is very interesting too..) runtime?
>>
>> > thanks in advance -
>> > Chris Nicholas
>>
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
As Yaw said, the user experience on J2ME in an emulator is probably
not going to be great. However, if that is what you are doing today,
JavaRosa on the emulator might be good enough (though I'm curious how
well bluetooth GPS would work in the emulator). The benefit of
looking at the OpenRosa suite of technologies is that eventually you
could transition to Android or J2ME phones. If you intend to stay on
Windows Mobile for a time, and have an advanced designer that you are
happy with, it might not make much sense to switch until you are
trying to go to different devices.
thanks for these updates; yes, I think we will be limited to J2ME, as
WFP has several hundred PDAs.
But I would very much like to separate the GUI piece from a database-
driven notion of what a 'survey' is.
Speaking of advanced designers...um...er....don't have one beyond
Access Form builder at the moment, but that is a decently high bar to
reproduce. I will check out the recommended items:
Also, anyone on this list planning to attend the upcoming RHOK effort
in ~2 weeks? I'll be in NYC; would love to meet some ODK folks in
'high def'.
best -
Chris
···
On Nov 21, 7:10 am, Jonathan Jackson wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> As Yaw said, the user experience on J2ME in an emulator is probably
> not going to be great. However, if that is what you are doing today,
> JavaRosa on the emulator might be good enough (though I'm curious how
> well bluetooth GPS would work in the emulator). The benefit of
> looking at the OpenRosa suite of technologies is that eventually you
> could transition to Android or J2ME phones. If you intend to stay on
> Windows Mobile for a time, and have an advanced designer that you are
> happy with, it might not make much sense to switch until you are
> trying to go to different devices.
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
Can this form designer be used for J2ME target execution? It is
entirely reasonable to only do form design on a laptop, which can have
a full JDK + Android jars...
The relationship is that it creates forms that can be consumed by JavaRosa
targets (clients) like ODK, CommCare, etc
Can this form designer be used for J2ME target execution? It is
entirely reasonable to only do form design on a laptop, which can have
a full JDK + Android jars...
The J2ME application must understand or talk xforms.
Just designing forms does not require a JDK or any Android jars. All you
need is a computer with a browser.
--
If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
spirit will flow out to others.
So, as we get closer to the "Random Hacks of Kindness" event this
weekend, not sure if any of you folks might be interested to attend,
but see: http://wiki.rhok.org/Main_Page#Events , or have a few hours to kill
over the weekend. If ODK authoring and data processing handles the
back end; great! We just need to identify a decent J2ME runtime that
can work on a PDA. Still learning what the differences are between
you folks and openXdata, etc, but basically we plan to task different
groups during the weekend to start testing most of the matrix of
producers and consumers of XForms. Again, our project page is: http://wiki.rhok.org/Vulnerability_and_Mapping_field_survey_tool_rework
hope to use ODK !
Chris
···
On Nov 21, 10:19 am, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Am not so sure if i have properly understood your questions, but let me try.
>
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Chris wrote:
> > so, what is the relationship betweenhttp://code.google.com/p/purcforms/
> > as a form designer, and Java Rosa targets?
>
> The relationship is that it creates forms that can be consumed by JavaRosa
> targets (clients) like ODK, CommCare, etc
>
>
>
> > Can this form designer be used for J2ME target execution? It is
> > entirely reasonable to only do form design on a laptop, which can have
> > a full JDK + Android jars...
>
> The J2ME application must understand or talk xforms.
> Just designing forms does not require a JDK or any Android jars. All you
> need is a computer with a browser.
>
>
>
> > Chris
>
> > --
> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> --
> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
> shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
> thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
> spirit will flow out to others.
i'll be around on the odk skype chat and on google chat to support an
odk rhok that steve hakusa at google ny is going to be driving. it's
likely going to be about some tablet support with collect
(http://wiki.rhok.org/SurveyTablet) but there will be other ideas to
hack on as well...
···
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 03:06, Chris wrote:
> So, as we get closer to the "Random Hacks of Kindness" event this
> weekend, not sure if any of you folks might be interested to attend,
> but see:
> http://wiki.rhok.org/Main_Page#Events , or have a few hours to kill
> over the weekend. If ODK authoring and data processing handles the
> back end; great! We just need to identify a decent J2ME runtime that
> can work on a PDA. Still learning what the differences are between
> you folks and openXdata, etc, but basically we plan to task different
> groups during the weekend to start testing most of the matrix of
> producers and consumers of XForms. Again, our project page is:
> http://wiki.rhok.org/Vulnerability_and_Mapping_field_survey_tool_rework
>
> hope to use ODK !
>
> Chris
>
> On Nov 21, 10:19 am, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> Am not so sure if i have properly understood your questions, but let me try.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Chris wrote:
>> > so, what is the relationship betweenhttp://code.google.com/p/purcforms/
>> > as a form designer, and Java Rosa targets?
>>
>> The relationship is that it creates forms that can be consumed by JavaRosa
>> targets (clients) like ODK, CommCare, etc
>>
>>
>>
>> > Can this form designer be used for J2ME target execution? It is
>> > entirely reasonable to only do form design on a laptop, which can have
>> > a full JDK + Android jars...
>>
>> The J2ME application must understand or talk xforms.
>> Just designing forms does not require a JDK or any Android jars. All you
>> need is a computer with a browser.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Chris
>>
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> --
>> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>> shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>> thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>> spirit will flow out to others.
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
odk rhok that steve hakusa at google ny is going to be driving. it's
likely going to be about some tablet support with collect
(http://wiki.rhok.org/SurveyTablet) but there will be other ideas to
hack on as well...
We also will be having a rhok @ the iHub in Nairobi. Hope to do some
work on the XForms implementation blueprint for Nokia Data Gathering
(https://projects.forum.nokia.com/ndg/wiki/3.04/Standardization)
If anyone is around from odk/openrosa would be great to meet up
We will be kicking off the RHOK in a few hours here in NYC, and we
plan to have a GotoMeeting open during most of the entire
session..though a few hours of gap between when I get kicked out of
the reception and make it back to my room.
···
On Dec 2, 10:27 am, Ian Lawrence wrote:
> Hi
>
> > odk rhok that steve hakusa at google ny is going to be driving. it's
> > likely going to be about some tablet support with collect
> > (http://wiki.rhok.org/SurveyTablet) but there will be other ideas to
> > hack on as well...
>
> We also will be having a rhok @ the iHub in Nairobi. Hope to do some
> work on the XForms implementation blueprint for Nokia Data Gathering
> (https://projects.forum.nokia.com/ndg/wiki/3.04/Standardization)
> If anyone is around from odk/openrosa would be great to meet up
>
> Regards
>
> --http://ianlawrence.info