Mobile app for data collection and visualization of narratives/stories?

Hi all,

I want to collect and visualize stories and narratives (like 'stories of
change') from the beneficiaries in our development programme. I prefer to
use a mobile data collection app, but ODK doesn't seem to offer the right
features to do this.

I know Cognitive Edge offers a pretty good solution with their SenseMaker
app, but it's quite expensive. http://cognitive-edge.com/sensemaker/

Do you know any other open source alternative for collecting and
visualizing narratives?

This question is not directly related to ODK. But, as most of you are
working on mobile data collection, you might have a solution for me.

Thanks,
Toon

I don't have an answer to your question, but I am curious -- what features
do you feel are missing in ODK Collect?

··· On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:03 AM, wrote:

Hi all,

I want to collect and visualize stories and narratives (like 'stories of
change') from the beneficiaries in our development programme. I prefer to
use a mobile data collection app, but ODK doesn't seem to offer the right
features to do this.

I know Cognitive Edge offers a pretty good solution with their SenseMaker
app, but it's quite expensive. http://cognitive-edge.com/sensemaker/

Do you know any other open source alternative for collecting and
visualizing narratives?

This question is not directly related to ODK. But, as most of you are
working on mobile data collection, you might have a solution for me.

Thanks,
Toon

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Mitch Sundt
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University of Washington
mitchellsundt@gmail.com

Especially the "triads" feature of SenseMaker is really helpfull in
categorizing and visualizing stories/narratives.
Don't find a similar feature in ODK...

Thanks.

··· On Thursday, 19 May 2016 17:03:15 UTC+3, maishabor...@gmail.com wrote: > > Hi all, > > I want to collect and visualize stories and narratives (like 'stories of > change') from the beneficiaries in our development programme. I prefer to > use a mobile data collection app, but ODK doesn't seem to offer the right > features to do this. > > I know Cognitive Edge offers a pretty good solution with their SenseMaker > app, but it's quite expensive. http://cognitive-edge.com/sensemaker/ > > Do you know any other open source alternative for collecting and > visualizing narratives? > > This question is not directly related to ODK. But, as most of you are > working on mobile data collection, you might have a solution for me. > > Thanks, > Toon >

And what exactly is a triad? Assume I know nothing :slight_smile:

Yaw

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On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:15 AM, maishabora.bfsp.tza@gmail.com wrote:

Especially the "triads" feature of SenseMaker is really helpfull in
categorizing and visualizing stories/narratives.
Don't find a similar feature in ODK...

Thanks.

On Thursday, 19 May 2016 17:03:15 UTC+3, maishabor...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all,

I want to collect and visualize stories and narratives (like 'stories of
change') from the beneficiaries in our development programme. I prefer to
use a mobile data collection app, but ODK doesn't seem to offer the right
features to do this.

I know Cognitive Edge offers a pretty good solution with their SenseMaker
app, but it's quite expensive. http://cognitive-edge.com/sensemaker/

Do you know any other open source alternative for collecting and
visualizing narratives?

This question is not directly related to ODK. But, as most of you are
working on mobile data collection, you might have a solution for me.

Thanks,
Toon

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Hi, the triads are a method to categorize stories on 3 parameters at the same time. I'm sure if you'll see a picture you'll understand it. https://emergingoptions.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/triads-in-sensemaker/

II'm looking for a similar or alternative way to process stories I collect from our beneficiaries right on the spot. I think this would be very helpful for quite a lot of NGO'S who want to use more qualitative data (like stories) in their M&E approach and are looking for time - saving and efficient way to capture and visualize these data.

I hope this is more clear now. Thanks for your interest!

The approach of triads is really cool. Do we know if the approach is
patented or is it ok to replicate this? I agree it would be a very
powerful widget to add to ODK.

··· On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:34 AM, wrote:

Hi, the triads are a method to categorize stories on 3 parameters at the
same time. I'm sure if you'll see a picture you'll understand it.
https://emergingoptions.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/triads-in-sensemaker/

II'm looking for a similar or alternative way to process stories I collect
from our beneficiaries right on the spot. I think this would be very
helpful for quite a lot of NGO'S who want to use more qualitative data
(like stories) in their M&E approach and are looking for time - saving and
efficient way to capture and visualize these data.

I hope this is more clear now. Thanks for your interest!

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Any new leads here? I don't know if the approach is patented, but it would
be really nice to use it. Cognitive edge uses it in their SenseMaker App
(http://cognitive-edge.com/sensemaker/)

··· On Saturday, 21 May 2016 12:21:12 UTC+3, Matt Berg wrote: > > The approach of triads is really cool. Do we know if the approach is > patented or is it ok to replicate this? I agree it would be a very > powerful widget to add to ODK. > > On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:34 AM, <maishabor...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> Hi, the triads are a method to categorize stories on 3 parameters at the >> same time. I'm sure if you'll see a picture you'll understand it. >> https://emergingoptions.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/triads-in-sensemaker/ >> >> II'm looking for a similar or alternative way to process stories I >> collect from our beneficiaries right on the spot. I think this would be >> very helpful for quite a lot of NGO'S who want to use more qualitative data >> (like stories) in their M&E approach and are looking for time - saving and >> efficient way to capture and visualize these data. >> >> I hope this is more clear now. Thanks for your interest! >> >> -- >> -- >> Post: opend...@googlegroups.com >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit...@googlegroups.com >> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "ODK Community" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to opendatakit...@googlegroups.com . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > >

I contacted Dave Snowden, founder of Cognitive Edge, and he confirmed
that the triad visualization is protected. We've been having some back
and forth over email and he has some interest in making an ODK triad
widget possible. I've made it clear that it would have to be Apache
2.0 licensed and he's working with his team to figure out what is
possible. Just wanted to let you know there are some ongoing
conversations, I'll update you once a conclusion is reached.

··· On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Toon Driesen wrote: > Any new leads here? I don't know if the approach is patented, but it would > be really nice to use it. Cognitive edge uses it in their SenseMaker App > (http://cognitive-edge.com/sensemaker/) > > On Saturday, 21 May 2016 12:21:12 UTC+3, Matt Berg wrote: >> >> The approach of triads is really cool. Do we know if the approach is >> patented or is it ok to replicate this? I agree it would be a very powerful >> widget to add to ODK. >> >> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:34 AM, wrote: >>> >>> Hi, the triads are a method to categorize stories on 3 parameters at the >>> same time. I'm sure if you'll see a picture you'll understand it. >>> https://emergingoptions.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/triads-in-sensemaker/ >>> >>> II'm looking for a similar or alternative way to process stories I >>> collect from our beneficiaries right on the spot. I think this would be very >>> helpful for quite a lot of NGO'S who want to use more qualitative data (like >>> stories) in their M&E approach and are looking for time - saving and >>> efficient way to capture and visualize these data. >>> >>> I hope this is more clear now. Thanks for your interest! >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Post: opend...@googlegroups.com >>> Unsubscribe: opendatakit...@googlegroups.com >>> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "ODK Community" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to opendatakit...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> > -- > -- > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ODK Community" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Toon Driesen toondriesen@gmail.com wrote:

Any new leads here? I don't know if the approach is patented, but it would
be really nice to use it. Cognitive edge uses it in their SenseMaker App
(http://cognitive-edge.com/sensemaker/)

On Saturday, 21 May 2016 12:21:12 UTC+3, Matt Berg wrote:

The approach of triads is really cool. Do we know if the approach is
patented or is it ok to replicate this? I agree it would be a very powerful
widget to add to ODK.

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:34 AM, maishabor...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi, the triads are a method to categorize stories on 3 parameters at the
same time. I'm sure if you'll see a picture you'll understand it.
https://emergingoptions.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/triads-in-sensemaker/

II'm looking for a similar or alternative way to process stories I
collect from our beneficiaries right on the spot. I think this would be very
helpful for quite a lot of NGO'S who want to use more qualitative data (like
stories) in their M&E approach and are looking for time - saving and
efficient way to capture and visualize these data.

I hope this is more clear now. Thanks for your interest!

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Just wondering if any progress has been made with the triad visualization for ODK? Thanks.

I had proposed a call with Dave Snowden to talk through licensing options and never heard back. If there's continued interest I could see about reviving the conversation. If anyone else would like to be included, please let me know.

2 Likes

Hi,

It's interesting to hear there were already some discussions with Dave Snowden on making these triads and dyads available. I would love to be interested in continuing this discussion.

These 2 widgets (dyads and triads) would really support qualitative data collection in the field. I've tried the 'range widget' for dyads, but it's not functioning in Enketo. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Toon

If these 'triads' are somehow patented by Cognitive Edge (!?) could we instead just use a generic color wheel for a similar purpose (which are certainly not patented)?

For example https://www.sessions.edu/color-calculator/

colorwheel

Fundamentally, a color wheel can likewise implement a three-axis (aka 'triad') widget to present a fairly intuitive interface for changing the 3 parameters in unison; in the above example, the amounts Red, Green and Blue. These 'colors' could be mapped to whatever 3 parameters you desire.

I'm no lawyer, but I suspect unless your three parameters happen to be mapped precisely to "analytical", "assertive" and "nurturing", you cant run afoul by simply having a 3-axis widget... [sic]

The triad diagram in itself is a ternary diagram, used in data visualisation since a long time back. So the diagram itself cannot be patented.

Hey!

Have you found a way to collect ternary diagram data points?

I’m a bit late to the discussion but in 2012 we looked into funding a ODK contributor in adding triads to ODK. Unfortunately it was not a priority at the time and we never pursued the idea. A decade later and I’m again in a similar situation as Maishabora_Bfsp_Tza who started this thread. I was looking for software that could help me with mobile data collection which allows me to use dyads and traits and it seems little has changed. The leading Participatory Narrative Inquiry (PNI) tools have no mobile data collector with the exception of Sensemaker which we can not use in our rather low budget projects. So I found this stalled discussion and wanted to contribute what I found out so far.
It is True that Cognitive Edge has put some patents in place to protect their software but it is incorrect that the triad as a data collection tool is protected. The Cognitive Edge website mentions that the Indexing of the triad is protected but that is stretching reality a little bit. There is no way you can patent a mathematical formula to do this. I have a patent in which I wanted to add a specific formula and our patent lawyer informed us it was impossible to do. There are ways around this but they will have to include the whole analytical process used in SenseMaker, as you can see in their patent applications https://patents.justia.com/inventor/david-john-snowden. I think they wish they could protect some aspects of SenseMaker data collection much more than what is legally possible. Patenting a triad would be like patenting the IF-NOT loop in software development. The closest they come to describing a triad is “information objects”. Be assured it is not possible even though some have tried to patent the IF-NOT principle. Other groups involved in Participatory Narrative Inquiry (PNI) use triads for many yers and I'm unaware of any court cases by Cognitive Edge against these groups and companies.
At https://pni2.org/2015/11/comparison-of-narrafirma-with-other-platforms-for-pnisensemaking/ there is a comparison of four PNI tools of which three use triads. Just look for triads in the document.

I personally think adding triads would be a great plus to ODK and I would definitely use them. It would solve some of my data collection problems but they need to be used with care. There is the problem of converting the Triad points in three normalised data values for which different calculations can be used. Although that is not that great a problem.
As long ODK does not include a significant analytical platform that allows fragments, audio or visuals in visual data representation as described in the patent description there is no chance of infringing on the patents filed by Cognitive Edge.
Do not take my word for it. Just check the information and links available and see if these give you enough certainty to consider triads in ODK.
I personally hope so.