XForms and HTML web forms

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21

Sure, these are nice suggestions. Thank you. I have considered some of
these things. They definitely would have helped when I was creating
the big surveys for our recent mission in Oklahoma!!

··· On 28 September 2011 10:33, Matt Langeman wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > Sorry, I go sidetracked last week. A few suggestions regarding the > implementation and UI. I like the way you can have "saved" questions > and option sets. A similar idea has been suggested by some of our > survey creators. If they have 5 choice questions, with the same 5 > options, it is tedious in ODK Build. However, I do like how easy it is > in ODK Build to add a new question, re-order, etc. From what I > remember with the UI in your demo it the flow was that you needed to > first create option sets, then questions, then add it to the survey. > Also, if you wanted to have a similar question, but with slightly > different wording or options, you would need a whole new question. > > What I think would be great, at least for the way we have been doing > surveys, is being able to quickly copy questions/option sets. I guess > there is a chance that you actually want to make sure it is the exact > same question/options, if you are doing comparison across surveys. So > maybe you need something like copy-new and copy-use options. Am I > making any sense? > > Matt > > > > On Sep 24, 12:22 am, Thomas Smyth wrote: >> Yaw and others: I had to take down the demo site b/c our server plan has >> limited memory and we're doing an active deployment tomorrow. I will try to >> rectify this early next week. Thanks again for your interest. >> >> On 23 September 2011 09:21, Cory Zue wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi Thomas, >> >> > This looks great, I'd love to take a look at the underlying >> > implementation. Is it open source or are there plans to open source >> > it? >> >> > thanks, >> > Cory >> >> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote: >> > > The forms and questions and options and etc. are all specified via the >> > > same app (see Forms, Questions, Options, etc., on the menu). Those >> > > form definitions are then viewable via the web or in ODK. >> > > Authentication is also integrated for web and ODK. >> >> > > Offline web forms are high on our priority list as TCC has lots of >> > > long term observers filling out longer forms on laptops with no >> > > connectivity. >> >> > > I need to write all this up at some point, but we have our first major >> > > deployment on Saturday so I've been defining forms like a madman. The >> > > longest one has 58 questions :) >> >> > > Feel free to send more questions. >> >> > > On 22 September 2011 19:05, Gaetano Borriello wrote: >> > >> Thomas: >> >> > >> Very nice pages. How is the html generated? What specification do >> > >> you start from? >> >> > >> Thanks, >> > >> Gaetano >> >> > >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Matt Langeman wrote: >> > >>> Hi Thomas, >> >> > >>> Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there are >> > >>> places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how to >> > >>> set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just >> > >>> placeholders? >> >> > >>> Thanks, >> > >>> Matt >> >> > >>> On Sep 22, 3:35 pm, Daniel Kayiwa wrote: >> > >>>> Sam, >> >> > >>>> Try it again now. It works. >> >> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Samuel Mbugua wrote: >> > >>>> > ** >> > >>>> > Thomas, >> >> > >>>> > Am getting "Password is not valid" too. >> >> > >>>> > On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote: >> >> > >>>> > Hi Thomas, >> >> > >>>> > I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login: >> > ddemo, >> > >>>> > password: tryMEout >> >> > >>>> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth < thomas.sm...@gatech.edu>wrote: >> >> > >>>> >> Sure. Tryhttps://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: >> > tryMEout >> >> > >>>> >> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response >> > -> >> > >>>> >> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go >> >> > >>>> >> Let me know if you have any questions. >> >> > >>>> >> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote: >> > >>>> >> > Hey Thomas, >> >> > >>>> >> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see >> > a >> > >>>> >> > demo? What platform is it built on? >> >> > >>>> >> > Matt >> >> > >>>> >> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote: >> > >>>> >> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both >> > HTML >> > >>>> >> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd >> > look >> > >>>> >> >> pretty nice. >> >> > >>>> >> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the >> > medium >> > >>>> >> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should >> > collaborate. >> >> > >>>> >> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman > >> > >>>> >> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano, >> >> > >>>> >> >> > Thanks for the responses. >> >> > >>>> >> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of >> > the >> > >>>> >> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a >> > paper >> > >>>> >> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and >> > Word/ >> > >>>> >> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that >> > >>>> >> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions >> > that >> > >>>> >> >> > head in that direction are appealing. >> >> > >>>> >> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and >> > >>>> >> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is >> > both an >> > >>>> >> >> > advantage and disadvantage. >> >> > >>>> >> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in >> > reverse. >> > >>>> >> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're >> > putting >> > >>>> >> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc. >> >> > >>>> >> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support >> > conditional >> > >>>> >> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission >> > with some >> > >>>> >> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why >> > there >> > >>>> >> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration? >> >> > >>>> >> >> > Matt >> >> > >>>> >> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote: >> > >>>> >> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you >> > might >> > >>>> >> want >> > >>>> >> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based >> > ways to >> > >>>> >> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython >> > and >> > >>>> >> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and >> > one >> > >>>> >> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry. >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying >> > form >> > >>>> >> engine >> > >>>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all >> > the >> > >>>> >> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the >> > browser. >> > >>>> >> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form >> > engine >> > >>>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every >> > >>>> >> question >> > >>>> >> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to >> > the >> > >>>> >> >> >> underlying jar. >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the >> > next >> > >>>> >> month, >> > >>>> >> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app. >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the >> > duplication >> > >>>> >> and >> > >>>> >> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always >> > been a >> > >>>> >> >> >> sticking point for us. >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> Cory >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote: >> > >>>> >> >> >> > Matt: >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been >> > considering >> > >>>> >> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see >> > >>>> >> xls2xform.opendatakit.org >> > >>>> >> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate >> > HTML5-compatible >> > >>>> >> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to >> > >>>> >> generate >> > >>>> >> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What >> > needs to be >> > >>>> >> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how >> > to make >> > >>>> >> it >> > >>>> >> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that >> > people can >> > >>>> >> do >> > >>>> >> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it >> > to >> > >>>> >> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute >> > the >> > >>>> >> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some >> > ideas for >> > >>>> >> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for >> > computing >> > >>>> >> default >> > >>>> >> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to >> > next >> > >>>> >> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this >> > >>>> >> further, I >> > >>>> >> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans >> > for how >> > >>>> >> we >> > >>>> >> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms >> > that >> > >>>> >> are >> > >>>> >> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward. >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> > Gaetano >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an >> > HTML/printable >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I >> > started >> > >>>> >> looking >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd >> > be >> > >>>> >> interested >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> in getting feedback on: >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you >> > build >> > >>>> >> XForm >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a >> > fillable >> > >>>> >> HTML >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> form. >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it? >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK? >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the >> > future >> > >>>> >> of >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways. >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be >> > directly >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms >> > may be >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is >> > complex >> > >>>> >> and >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very >> > powerful >> > >>>> >> complex >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for >> > the >> > >>>> >> same >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms. >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I >> > assume it >> > >>>> >> was >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the >> > time. >> >> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - Thoughts? >> >> ... >> >> read more » > > -- > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en >
22

Hi Thomas,

I'd like to check out the demo--what is the current login information? Has
the project been open sourced yet?

Thanks
Adjoa

··· On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:

Sure, these are nice suggestions. Thank you. I have considered some of
these things. They definitely would have helped when I was creating
the big surveys for our recent mission in Oklahoma!!

On 28 September 2011 10:33, Matt Langeman mklangeman@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Sorry, I go sidetracked last week. A few suggestions regarding the
implementation and UI. I like the way you can have "saved" questions
and option sets. A similar idea has been suggested by some of our
survey creators. If they have 5 choice questions, with the same 5
options, it is tedious in ODK Build. However, I do like how easy it is
in ODK Build to add a new question, re-order, etc. From what I
remember with the UI in your demo it the flow was that you needed to
first create option sets, then questions, then add it to the survey.
Also, if you wanted to have a similar question, but with slightly
different wording or options, you would need a whole new question.

What I think would be great, at least for the way we have been doing
surveys, is being able to quickly copy questions/option sets. I guess
there is a chance that you actually want to make sure it is the exact
same question/options, if you are doing comparison across surveys. So
maybe you need something like copy-new and copy-use options. Am I
making any sense?

Matt

On Sep 24, 12:22 am, Thomas Smyth thomas.sm...@gatech.edu wrote:

Yaw and others: I had to take down the demo site b/c our server plan has
limited memory and we're doing an active deployment tomorrow. I will
try to
rectify this early next week. Thanks again for your interest.

On 23 September 2011 09:21, Cory Zue c...@dimagi.com wrote:

Hi Thomas,

This looks great, I'd love to take a look at the underlying
implementation. Is it open source or are there plans to open source
it?

thanks,
Cory

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Thomas Smyth < thomas.sm...@gatech.edu> wrote:

The forms and questions and options and etc. are all specified via
the
same app (see Forms, Questions, Options, etc., on the menu). Those
form definitions are then viewable via the web or in ODK.
Authentication is also integrated for web and ODK.

Offline web forms are high on our priority list as TCC has lots of
long term observers filling out longer forms on laptops with no
connectivity.

I need to write all this up at some point, but we have our first
major
deployment on Saturday so I've been defining forms like a madman.
The
longest one has 58 questions :slight_smile:

Feel free to send more questions.

On 22 September 2011 19:05, Gaetano Borriello < gaet...@cs.washington.edu> wrote:

Thomas:

Very nice pages. How is the html generated? What specification do
you start from?

Thanks,
Gaetano

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there
are
places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how
to
set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just
placeholders?

Thanks,
Matt

On Sep 22, 3:35 pm, Daniel Kayiwa kayiwadan...@gmail.com wrote:

Sam,

Try it again now. It works.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Samuel Mbugua < stha...@gmail.com> wrote:

**
Thomas,

Am getting "Password is not valid" too.

On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:

Hi Thomas,

I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use:
login:
ddemo,
password: tryMEout

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth < thomas.sm...@gatech.edu>wrote:

Sure. Tryhttps://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password:
tryMEout

To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New
Response
->
Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go

Let me know if you have any questions.

On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Thomas,

I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I
could see
a
demo? What platform is it built on?

Matt

On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth thomas.sm...@gatech.edu wrote:

We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does
both
HTML
and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say
they'd
look
pretty nice.

We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the
medium
term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should
collaborate.

On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Cory and Gaetano,

Thanks for the responses.

One of my immediate goals is to create a printable
version of
the
form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect
and a
paper
version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build
and
Word/
Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5
version that
supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I
solutions
that
head in that direction are appealing.

So what I'm looking for is a bit different than
touchforms and
typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form
engine is
both an
advantage and disadvantage.

What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in
reverse.
Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're
putting
together? Does it support conditional logic, validation,
etc.

I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support
conditional
logic, validation, calculated fields, web based
submission
with some
control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason
why
there
isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?

Matt

On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue c...@dimagi.com wrote:

If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web
you
might
want
to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are
web-based
ways to
play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using
jython
and
django. There are two UIs, one optimized for
touchscreens and
one
optimized for keyboard entry.

The good thing about them is that they use the
underlying
form
engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means
all
the
underlying functionality of the clients is available in
the
browser.
The bad thing about them is that they use the
underlying form
engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means
every
question
is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call
out to
the
underlying jar.

We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in
the
next
month,
but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.

I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the
duplication
and
recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has
always
been a
sticking point for us.

Cory

[1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello gaet...@cs.washington.edu wrote:

Matt:

this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been
considering
creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
xls2xform.opendatakit.org
and childcount.org) that would have it generate
HTML5-compatible
Javascript from the same specification that we know
use to
generate
Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What
needs to be
figured out is the template for each question type
and how
to make
it
easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that
people can
do
more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our
hope it
to
eventually have a version of ODK that would simply
execute
the
Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with
some
ideas for
making each question an object that has methods for
computing
default
values, checking constraints, which question to
advance to
next
(data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to
pursue this
further, I
would welcome the opportunity to make some specific
plans
for how
we
could get this done. I think the first part, making
forms
that
are
viewable in a browser should be relatively
straightforward.

Gaetano

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been doing some more looking into creating an
HTML/printable
version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms,
I
started
looking
more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that
I'd
be
interested
in getting feedback on:

  1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets
    you
    build
    XForm
    based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and
    a
    fillable
    HTML
    form.
    • Have other used this or looked into it?
    • What would it take to make this work with ODK?
  1. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion
    about the
    future
    of
    web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take
    aways.
    • Future in web browsers: XForms will likely
      never be
      directly
      incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5
      forms
      may be
      incorporated into standard web browsers
    • Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec
      is
      complex
      and
      forms are harder to create, but you can create very
      powerful
      complex
      forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not
      allow for
      the
      same
      level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
  • ODK does not support all of the XForms spec,
    but I
    assume it
    was
    choose because it was the open standard of choice at
    the
    time.
  • Thoughts?

...

read more »

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Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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--
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Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en