I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started looking
more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be interested
in getting feedback on:
Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build XForm
based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable HTML
form.
Have other used this or looked into it?
What would it take to make this work with ODK?
XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future of
web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
incorporated into standard web browsers
Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex and
forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful complex
forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the same
level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it was
choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
Thoughts?
I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is best to
focus resources/effort?
It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both in
terms of effort and benefit.
Do others agree?
How big is a job is this?
Where would you start?
with something like Orbeon?
Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form w/
extra JS?
this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
Javascript from the same specification that we know use to generate
Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
figured out is the template for each question type and how to make it
easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can do
more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
making each question an object that has methods for computing default
values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
(data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this further, I
would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how we
could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that are
viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
Gaetano
···
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started looking
> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be interested
> in getting feedback on:
>
> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build XForm
> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable HTML
> form.
> - Have other used this or looked into it?
> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>
> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future of
> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
> incorporated into standard web browsers
> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex and
> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful complex
> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the same
> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>
> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it was
> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>
> - Thoughts?
>
> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is best to
> focus resources/effort?
> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both in
> terms of effort and benefit.
> - Do others agree?
> - How big is a job is this?
> - Where would you start?
> - with something like Orbeon?
> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form w/
> extra JS?
>
> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might want
to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
optimized for keyboard entry.
The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every question
is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
underlying jar.
We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next month,
but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication and
recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
sticking point for us.
···
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
> Matt:
>
> this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
> creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
> and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
> Javascript from the same specification that we know use to generate
> Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
> figured out is the template for each question type and how to make it
> easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can do
> more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
> eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
> Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
> making each question an object that has methods for computing default
> values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
> (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this further, I
> would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how we
> could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that are
> viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>
> Gaetano
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
>> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started looking
>> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be interested
>> in getting feedback on:
>>
>> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build XForm
>> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable HTML
>> form.
>> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>>
>> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future of
>> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
>> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
>> incorporated into standard web browsers
>> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex and
>> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful complex
>> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the same
>> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>>
>> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it was
>> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>>
>> - Thoughts?
>>
>> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is best to
>> focus resources/effort?
>> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both in
>> terms of effort and benefit.
>> - Do others agree?
>> - How big is a job is this?
>> - Where would you start?
>> - with something like Orbeon?
>> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form w/
>> extra JS?
>>
>> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
>>
>> --
>> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
head in that direction are appealing.
So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
advantage and disadvantage.
What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
Matt
···
On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might want
> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
> optimized for keyboard entry.
>
> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every question
> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
> underlying jar.
>
> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next month,
> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>
> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication and
> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
> sticking point for us.
>
> Cory
>
> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
> > Matt:
>
> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to generate
> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make it
> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can do
> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
> > making each question an object that has methods for computing default
> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this further, I
> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how we
> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that are
> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>
> > Gaetano
>
> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started looking
> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be interested
> >> in getting feedback on:
>
> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build XForm
> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable HTML
> >> form.
> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>
> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future of
> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex and
> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful complex
> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the same
> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>
> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it was
> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>
> >> - Thoughts?
>
> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is best to
> >> focus resources/effort?
> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both in
> >> terms of effort and benefit.
> >> - Do others agree?
> >> - How big is a job is this?
> >> - Where would you start?
> >> - with something like Orbeon?
> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form w/
> >> extra JS?
>
> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Matt
>
> >> --
> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> > --
> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
pretty nice.
We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
···
On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
> Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>
> Thanks for the responses.
>
> One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
> form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
> version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
> Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
> supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
> head in that direction are appealing.
>
> So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
> typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
> advantage and disadvantage.
>
> What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
> Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
> together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>
> I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
> logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
> control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
> isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
>> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might want
>> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
>> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
>> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
>> optimized for keyboard entry.
>>
>> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
>> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
>> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every question
>> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
>> underlying jar.
>>
>> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next month,
>> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>>
>> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication and
>> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
>> sticking point for us.
>>
>> Cory
>>
>> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>> > Matt:
>>
>> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
>> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
>> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
>> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to generate
>> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
>> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make it
>> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can do
>> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
>> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
>> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
>> > making each question an object that has methods for computing default
>> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
>> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this further, I
>> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how we
>> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that are
>> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>>
>> > Gaetano
>>
>> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
>> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started looking
>> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be interested
>> >> in getting feedback on:
>>
>> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build XForm
>> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable HTML
>> >> form.
>> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>>
>> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future of
>> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
>> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
>> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
>> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex and
>> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful complex
>> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the same
>> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>>
>> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it was
>> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>>
>> >> - Thoughts?
>>
>> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is best to
>> >> focus resources/effort?
>> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both in
>> >> terms of effort and benefit.
>> >> - Do others agree?
>> >> - How big is a job is this?
>> >> - Where would you start?
>> >> - with something like Orbeon?
>> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form w/
>> >> extra JS?
>>
>> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Matt
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
demo? What platform is it built on?
Matt
···
On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
> pretty nice.
>
> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>
> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>
> > Thanks for the responses.
>
> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
> > head in that direction are appealing.
>
> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
> > advantage and disadvantage.
>
> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>
> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>
> > Matt
>
> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might want
> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>
> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every question
> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
> >> underlying jar.
>
> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next month,
> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>
> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication and
> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
> >> sticking point for us.
>
> >> Cory
>
> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>
> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
> >> > Matt:
>
> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to generate
> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make it
> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can do
> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing default
> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this further, I
> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how we
> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that are
> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>
> >> > Gaetano
>
> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started looking
> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be interested
> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>
> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build XForm
> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable HTML
> >> >> form.
> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>
> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future of
> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex and
> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful complex
> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the same
> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>
> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it was
> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>
> >> >> - Thoughts?
>
> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is best to
> >> >> focus resources/effort?
> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both in
> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
> >> >> - Do others agree?
> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
> >> >> - Where would you start?
> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form w/
> >> >> extra JS?
>
> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Matt
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> >> > --
> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> > --
> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
Let me know if you have any questions.
···
On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
> Hey Thomas,
>
> I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
> demo? What platform is it built on?
>
> Matt
>
> On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
>> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
>> pretty nice.
>>
>> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
>> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>>
>> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>>
>> > Thanks for the responses.
>>
>> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
>> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
>> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
>> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
>> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
>> > head in that direction are appealing.
>>
>> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
>> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
>> > advantage and disadvantage.
>>
>> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
>> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
>> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>>
>> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
>> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
>> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
>> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>>
>> > Matt
>>
>> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
>> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might want
>> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
>> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
>> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
>> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>>
>> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
>> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
>> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every question
>> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
>> >> underlying jar.
>>
>> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next month,
>> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>>
>> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication and
>> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
>> >> sticking point for us.
>>
>> >> Cory
>>
>> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>> >> > Matt:
>>
>> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
>> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
>> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
>> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to generate
>> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
>> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make it
>> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can do
>> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
>> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
>> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
>> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing default
>> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
>> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this further, I
>> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how we
>> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that are
>> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>>
>> >> > Gaetano
>>
>> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
>> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started looking
>> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be interested
>> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>>
>> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build XForm
>> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable HTML
>> >> >> form.
>> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>>
>> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future of
>> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
>> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
>> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
>> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex and
>> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful complex
>> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the same
>> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>>
>> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it was
>> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>>
>> >> >> - Thoughts?
>>
>> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is best to
>> >> >> focus resources/effort?
>> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both in
>> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
>> >> >> - Do others agree?
>> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
>> >> >> - Where would you start?
>> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
>> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form w/
>> >> >> extra JS?
>>
>> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>>
>> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >> Matt
>>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> > --
>> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
pretty nice.
We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
head in that direction are appealing.
So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
advantage and disadvantage.
What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might want
to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
optimized for keyboard entry.
The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
question
is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
underlying jar.
We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
month,
but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
and
recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
sticking point for us.
this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
Javascript from the same specification that we know use to generate
Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
figured out is the template for each question type and how to make
it
easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can
do
more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
making each question an object that has methods for computing
default
values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
(data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
further, I
would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how
we
could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that are
viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
looking
more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
interested
in getting feedback on:
Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
XForm
based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
HTML
form.
Have other used this or looked into it?
What would it take to make this work with ODK?
XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future
of
web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
incorporated into standard web browsers
Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
and
forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
complex
forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
same
level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it
was
choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
Thoughts?
I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
best to
focus resources/effort?
It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both in
terms of effort and benefit.
Do others agree?
How big is a job is this?
Where would you start?
with something like Orbeon?
Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form
w/
extra JS?
--
If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
spirit will flow out to others.
Thanks - it works now. Very neat implementation. How do you download forms
to ODK? Is your server set to sync with ODK wirelessly or is there an option
to download the XML form?
Just point your ODK instance to https://secure2.cceom.org. Make sure the
form you want to download is marked 'published.' The green up arrow
publishes a form. Use the same credentials. If you just want to see the XML,
try https://secure2.cceom.org/forms/4.xml, where '4' is the ID of the form
you want to see. You can discover ID's by showing or editing a form and
looking at the URL in the address bar. (This is a bit obtuse as users aren't
usually expected to want to see XML.)
···
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>
>> Tino, it seems to be working for me. I even clicked on the link in your
>> email. Make sure you use https not http.
>>
>>
>> On 23 September 2011 00:04, Tino Kreutzer wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Thomas,
>>> I'm having trouble connecting to your site. If I visit
>>> https://secure2.cceom.org I get "Coming soon: Another fine website
>>> hosted by WebFaction ." If I go to
>>> https://cceom.org/ and enter login: ddemo, password:tryMEout - I get
>>> 'Login is not valid'
>>>
>>> Did you already disable the login or is there something I didn't
>>> understand?
>>>
>>> Would love to try the site.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tino
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sure. Try https://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: tryMEout
>>>>
>>>> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
>>>> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>>>>
>>>> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>>> > Hey Thomas,
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
>>>> > demo? What platform is it built on?
>>>> >
>>>> > Matt
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>>> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
>>>> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
>>>> >> pretty nice.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
>>>> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Thanks for the responses.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
>>>> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
>>>> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
>>>> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
>>>> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
>>>> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
>>>> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both
>>>> an
>>>> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
>>>> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
>>>> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support
>>>> conditional
>>>> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with
>>>> some
>>>> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
>>>> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Matt
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
>>>> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might
>>>> want
>>>> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
>>>> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
>>>> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
>>>> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form
>>>> engine
>>>> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
>>>> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the
>>>> browser.
>>>> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form
>>>> engine
>>>> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
>>>> question
>>>> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
>>>> >> >> underlying jar.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
>>>> month,
>>>> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
>>>> and
>>>> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been
>>>> a
>>>> >> >> sticking point for us.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> Cory
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>>>> >> >> > Matt:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
>>>> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
>>>> xls2xform.opendatakit.org
>>>> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate
>>>> HTML5-compatible
>>>> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
>>>> generate
>>>> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to
>>>> be
>>>> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to
>>>> make it
>>>> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people
>>>> can do
>>>> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
>>>> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
>>>> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas
>>>> for
>>>> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing
>>>> default
>>>> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
>>>> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
>>>> further, I
>>>> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for
>>>> how we
>>>> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that
>>>> are
>>>> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> > Gaetano
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an
>>>> HTML/printable
>>>> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
>>>> looking
>>>> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
>>>> interested
>>>> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
>>>> XForm
>>>> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
>>>> HTML
>>>> >> >> >> form.
>>>> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>>>> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the
>>>> future of
>>>> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>>>> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be
>>>> directly
>>>> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may
>>>> be
>>>> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
>>>> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
>>>> and
>>>> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
>>>> complex
>>>> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
>>>> same
>>>> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume
>>>> it was
>>>> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
>>>> best to
>>>> >> >> >> focus resources/effort?
>>>> >> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both
>>>> in
>>>> >> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
>>>> >> >> >> - Do others agree?
>>>> >> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
>>>> >> >> >> - Where would you start?
>>>> >> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
>>>> >> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>>>> >> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5
>>>> form w/
>>>> >> >> >> extra JS?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> >> >> Matt
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> > --
>>>> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> > Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
BTW hi Daniel! Do you remember me from Uganda, 2008, Makerere? Where
are you working now!?
···
On 22 September 2011 14:56, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login: ddemo,
> password: tryMEout
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>
>> Sure. Try https://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: tryMEout
>>
>> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
>> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>>
>> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>>
>> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> > Hey Thomas,
>> >
>> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
>> > demo? What platform is it built on?
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
>> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
>> >> pretty nice.
>> >>
>> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
>> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>> >>
>> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>> >>
>> >> > Thanks for the responses.
>> >>
>> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
>> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
>> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
>> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
>> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
>> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
>> >>
>> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
>> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
>> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
>> >>
>> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
>> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
>> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>> >>
>> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
>> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
>> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
>> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>> >>
>> >> > Matt
>> >>
>> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
>> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might
>> >> >> want
>> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
>> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
>> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
>> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>> >>
>> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form
>> >> >> engine
>> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
>> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
>> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
>> >> >> question
>> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
>> >> >> underlying jar.
>> >>
>> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
>> >> >> month,
>> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>> >>
>> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
>> >> >> sticking point for us.
>> >>
>> >> >> Cory
>> >>
>> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>> >>
>> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>> >> >> > Matt:
>> >>
>> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
>> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
>> >> >> > xls2xform.opendatakit.org
>> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
>> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
>> >> >> > generate
>> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
>> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make
>> >> >> > it
>> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can
>> >> >> > do
>> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
>> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
>> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
>> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing
>> >> >> > default
>> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
>> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
>> >> >> > further, I
>> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how
>> >> >> > we
>> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that
>> >> >> > are
>> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>> >>
>> >> >> > Gaetano
>> >>
>> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
>> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
>> >> >> >> looking
>> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
>> >> >> >> interested
>> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>> >>
>> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
>> >> >> >> XForm
>> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
>> >> >> >> HTML
>> >> >> >> form.
>> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>> >>
>> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
>> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
>> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
>> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
>> >> >> >> complex
>> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
>> >> >> >> same
>> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>> >>
>> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it
>> >> >> >> was
>> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>> >>
>> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
>> >>
>> >> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
>> >> >> >> best to
>> >> >> >> focus resources/effort?
>> >> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both
>> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
>> >> >> >> - Do others agree?
>> >> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
>> >> >> >> - Where would you start?
>> >> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
>> >> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>> >> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form
>> >> >> >> w/
>> >> >> >> extra JS?
>> >>
>> >> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>> >>
>> >> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >> >> Matt
>> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>> >>
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>> >>
>> >> > --
>> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>> >
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
>
>
> --
> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
> shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
> thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
> spirit will flow out to others.
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
···
On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login:
> ddemo, password: tryMEout
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth <thomas.smyth@gatech.edu > wrote:
>
> Sure. Try https://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: tryMEout
>
> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>
> Let me know if you have any questions.
>
>
> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman <mklangeman@gmail.com > wrote:
> > Hey Thomas,
> >
> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
> > demo? What platform is it built on?
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth <thomas.sm...@gatech.edu > wrote:
> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both
> HTML
> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say
> they'd look
> >> pretty nice.
> >>
> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should
> collaborate.
> >>
> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman <mklange...@gmail.com > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
> >>
> >> > Thanks for the responses.
> >>
> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I
> solutions that
> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
> >>
> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is
> both an
> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
> >>
> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
> >>
> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support
> conditional
> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission
> with some
> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
> >>
> >> > Matt
> >>
> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue <c...@dimagi.com > wrote:
> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you
> might want
> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based
> ways to
> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens
> and one
> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
> >>
> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying
> form engine
> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the
> browser.
> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying
> form engine
> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means
> every question
> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
> >> >> underlying jar.
> >>
> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the
> next month,
> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
> >>
> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the
> duplication and
> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has
> always been a
> >> >> sticking point for us.
> >>
> >> >> Cory
> >>
> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello <gaet...@cs.washington.edu > wrote:
> >> >> > Matt:
> >>
> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been
> considering
> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
> xls2xform.opendatakit.org
> >> >> > and childcount.org ) that would
> have it generate HTML5-compatible
> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
> generate
> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What
> needs to be
> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how
> to make it
> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that
> people can do
> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some
> ideas for
> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for
> computing default
> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to
> next
> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue
> this further, I
> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans
> for how we
> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms
> that are
> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
> >>
> >> >> > Gaetano
> >>
> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman <mklange...@gmail.com > wrote:
> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an
> HTML/printable
> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I
> started looking
> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd
> be interested
> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
> >>
> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you
> build XForm
> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a
> fillable HTML
> >> >> >> form.
> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
> >>
> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the
> future of
> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be
> directly
> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms
> may be
> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is
> complex and
> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very
> powerful complex
> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow
> for the same
> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
> >>
> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I
> assume it was
> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the
> time.
> >>
> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
> >>
> >> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where
> it is best to
> >> >> >> focus resources/effort?
> >> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big
> feature, both in
> >> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
> >> >> >> - Do others agree?
> >> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
> >> >> >> - Where would you start?
> >> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
> >> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
> >> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and
> HTML5 form w/
> >> >> >> extra JS?
> >>
> >> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> >> Matt
> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>
> >> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>
> >> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
> >>
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>
> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>
> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
> >>
> >> > --
> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>
> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>
> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
> >
> > --
> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>
> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>
> > Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
> >
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
>
>
>
> --
> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of
> others, we shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved
> us; but if our thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of
> Christ for us, the same spirit will flow out to others.
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
pretty nice.
We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
head in that direction are appealing.
So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
advantage and disadvantage.
What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might
want
to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
optimized for keyboard entry.
The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form
engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
question
is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
underlying jar.
We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
month,
but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
and
recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
sticking point for us.
this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
generate
Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
figured out is the template for each question type and how to make
it
easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can
do
more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
making each question an object that has methods for computing
default
values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
(data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
further, I
would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how
we
could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that
are
viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
looking
more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
interested
in getting feedback on:
Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
XForm
based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
HTML
form.
Have other used this or looked into it?
What would it take to make this work with ODK?
XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future
of
web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
incorporated into standard web browsers
Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
and
forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
complex
forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
same
level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it
was
choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
Thoughts?
I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
best to
focus resources/effort?
It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both
in
terms of effort and benefit.
Do others agree?
How big is a job is this?
Where would you start?
with something like Orbeon?
Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form
w/
extra JS?
--
If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
spirit will flow out to others.
--
If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
spirit will flow out to others.
Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there are
places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how to
set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just
placeholders?
Thanks,
Matt
···
On Sep 22, 3:35 pm, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
> Sam,
>
> Try it again now. It works.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Samuel Mbugua wrote:
> > **
> > Thomas,
>
> > Am getting "Password is not valid" too.
>
> > On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>
> > Hi Thomas,
>
> > I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login: ddemo,
> > password: tryMEout
>
> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>
> >> Sure. Tryhttps://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: tryMEout
>
> >> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
> >> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>
> >> Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> >> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
> >> > Hey Thomas,
>
> >> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
> >> > demo? What platform is it built on?
>
> >> > Matt
>
> >> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
> >> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
> >> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
> >> >> pretty nice.
>
> >> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
> >> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>
> >> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>
> >> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>
> >> >> > Thanks for the responses.
>
> >> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
> >> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
> >> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
> >> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
> >> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
> >> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
>
> >> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
> >> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
> >> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
>
> >> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
> >> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
> >> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>
> >> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
> >> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
> >> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
> >> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>
> >> >> > Matt
>
> >> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
> >> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might
> >> want
> >> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
> >> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
> >> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
> >> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>
> >> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form
> >> engine
> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
> >> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
> >> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
> >> question
> >> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
> >> >> >> underlying jar.
>
> >> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
> >> month,
> >> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>
> >> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
> >> and
> >> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
> >> >> >> sticking point for us.
>
> >> >> >> Cory
>
> >> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>
> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
> >> >> >> > Matt:
>
> >> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
> >> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
> >> xls2xform.opendatakit.org
> >> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
> >> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
> >> generate
> >> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
> >> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make
> >> it
> >> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can
> >> do
> >> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
> >> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
> >> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
> >> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing
> >> default
> >> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
> >> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
> >> further, I
> >> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how
> >> we
> >> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that
> >> are
> >> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>
> >> >> >> > Gaetano
>
> >> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
> >> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
> >> looking
> >> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
> >> interested
> >> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>
> >> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
> >> XForm
> >> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
> >> HTML
> >> >> >> >> form.
> >> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
> >> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>
> >> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future
> >> of
> >> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
> >> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
> >> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
> >> and
> >> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
> >> complex
> >> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
> >> same
> >> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>
> >> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it
> >> was
> >> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>
> >> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
>
> >> >> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
> >> best to
> >> >> >> >> focus resources/effort?
> >> >> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both
> >> in
> >> >> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
> >> >> >> >> - Do others agree?
> >> >> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
> >> >> >> >> - Where would you start?
> >> >> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
> >> >> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
> >> >> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form
> >> w/
> >> >> >> >> extra JS?
>
> >> >> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>
> >> >> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> >> >> Matt
>
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> >> >> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >> >> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> >> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> >> > --
> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> >> --
> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> > --
> > If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
> > shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
> > thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
> > spirit will flow out to others.
> > --
> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> > --
> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
> --
> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
> shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
> thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
> spirit will flow out to others.
Very nice pages. How is the html generated? What specification do
you start from?
Thanks,
Gaetano
···
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there are
> places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how to
> set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just
> placeholders?
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>
> On Sep 22, 3:35 pm, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>> Sam,
>>
>> Try it again now. It works.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Samuel Mbugua wrote:
>> > **
>> > Thomas,
>>
>> > Am getting "Password is not valid" too.
>>
>> > On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Thomas,
>>
>> > I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login: ddemo,
>> > password: tryMEout
>>
>> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>
>> >> Sure. Tryhttps://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: tryMEout
>>
>> >> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
>> >> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>>
>> >> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>> >> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> >> > Hey Thomas,
>>
>> >> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
>> >> > demo? What platform is it built on?
>>
>> >> > Matt
>>
>> >> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>> >> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
>> >> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
>> >> >> pretty nice.
>>
>> >> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
>> >> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>>
>> >> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>>
>> >> >> > Thanks for the responses.
>>
>> >> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
>> >> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
>> >> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
>> >> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
>> >> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
>> >> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
>>
>> >> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
>> >> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
>> >> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
>>
>> >> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
>> >> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
>> >> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>>
>> >> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
>> >> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
>> >> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
>> >> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>>
>> >> >> > Matt
>>
>> >> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
>> >> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might
>> >> want
>> >> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
>> >> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
>> >> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
>> >> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>>
>> >> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form
>> >> engine
>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
>> >> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
>> >> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
>> >> question
>> >> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
>> >> >> >> underlying jar.
>>
>> >> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
>> >> month,
>> >> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>>
>> >> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
>> >> >> >> sticking point for us.
>>
>> >> >> >> Cory
>>
>> >> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>>
>> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Matt:
>>
>> >> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
>> >> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
>> >> xls2xform.opendatakit.org
>> >> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
>> >> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
>> >> generate
>> >> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
>> >> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make
>> >> it
>> >> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can
>> >> do
>> >> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
>> >> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
>> >> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
>> >> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing
>> >> default
>> >> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
>> >> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
>> >> further, I
>> >> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how
>> >> we
>> >> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that
>> >> are
>> >> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>>
>> >> >> >> > Gaetano
>>
>> >> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
>> >> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
>> >> looking
>> >> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
>> >> interested
>> >> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>>
>> >> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
>> >> XForm
>> >> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
>> >> HTML
>> >> >> >> >> form.
>> >> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>> >> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>>
>> >> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>> >> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
>> >> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
>> >> complex
>> >> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
>> >> same
>> >> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it
>> >> was
>> >> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
>>
>> >> >> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
>> >> best to
>> >> >> >> >> focus resources/effort?
>> >> >> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
>> >> >> >> >> - Do others agree?
>> >> >> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
>> >> >> >> >> - Where would you start?
>> >> >> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
>> >> >> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>> >> >> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form
>> >> w/
>> >> >> >> >> extra JS?
>>
>> >> >> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >> >> >> Matt
>>
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> > --
>> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> > --
>> > If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>> > shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>> > thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>> > spirit will flow out to others.
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> --
>> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>> shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>> thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>> spirit will flow out to others.
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
Yes it works. Currently there can only be one condition per question.
Plans to add multiple condition ability.
To get it to work you have to have a prior question to which
conditions can be applied. Then you choose from the dropdowns and away
you go. The interface for conditions is a bit rough, I know. It was
something of a rush job. Plans are to clean it up when we have some
time.
Any other questions? Do you think it would suit your needs?
···
On 22 September 2011 17:47, Matt Langeman wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there are
> places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how to
> set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just
> placeholders?
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>
> On Sep 22, 3:35 pm, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>> Sam,
>>
>> Try it again now. It works.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Samuel Mbugua wrote:
>> > **
>> > Thomas,
>>
>> > Am getting "Password is not valid" too.
>>
>> > On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Thomas,
>>
>> > I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login: ddemo,
>> > password: tryMEout
>>
>> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>
>> >> Sure. Tryhttps://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: tryMEout
>>
>> >> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
>> >> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>>
>> >> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>> >> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> >> > Hey Thomas,
>>
>> >> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
>> >> > demo? What platform is it built on?
>>
>> >> > Matt
>>
>> >> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>> >> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
>> >> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
>> >> >> pretty nice.
>>
>> >> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
>> >> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>>
>> >> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>>
>> >> >> > Thanks for the responses.
>>
>> >> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
>> >> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
>> >> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
>> >> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
>> >> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
>> >> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
>>
>> >> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
>> >> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
>> >> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
>>
>> >> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
>> >> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
>> >> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>>
>> >> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
>> >> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
>> >> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
>> >> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>>
>> >> >> > Matt
>>
>> >> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
>> >> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might
>> >> want
>> >> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
>> >> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
>> >> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
>> >> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>>
>> >> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form
>> >> engine
>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
>> >> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
>> >> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
>> >> question
>> >> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
>> >> >> >> underlying jar.
>>
>> >> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
>> >> month,
>> >> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>>
>> >> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
>> >> >> >> sticking point for us.
>>
>> >> >> >> Cory
>>
>> >> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>>
>> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Matt:
>>
>> >> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
>> >> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
>> >> xls2xform.opendatakit.org
>> >> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
>> >> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
>> >> generate
>> >> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
>> >> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make
>> >> it
>> >> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can
>> >> do
>> >> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
>> >> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
>> >> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
>> >> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing
>> >> default
>> >> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
>> >> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
>> >> further, I
>> >> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how
>> >> we
>> >> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that
>> >> are
>> >> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>>
>> >> >> >> > Gaetano
>>
>> >> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
>> >> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
>> >> looking
>> >> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
>> >> interested
>> >> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>>
>> >> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
>> >> XForm
>> >> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
>> >> HTML
>> >> >> >> >> form.
>> >> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>> >> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>>
>> >> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>> >> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
>> >> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
>> >> complex
>> >> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
>> >> same
>> >> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it
>> >> was
>> >> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
>>
>> >> >> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
>> >> best to
>> >> >> >> >> focus resources/effort?
>> >> >> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
>> >> >> >> >> - Do others agree?
>> >> >> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
>> >> >> >> >> - Where would you start?
>> >> >> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
>> >> >> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>> >> >> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form
>> >> w/
>> >> >> >> >> extra JS?
>>
>> >> >> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >> >> >> Matt
>>
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> > --
>> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> > --
>> > If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>> > shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>> > thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>> > spirit will flow out to others.
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> > --
>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>> --
>> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>> shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>> thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>> spirit will flow out to others.
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
The forms and questions and options and etc. are all specified via the
same app (see Forms, Questions, Options, etc., on the menu). Those
form definitions are then viewable via the web or in ODK.
Authentication is also integrated for web and ODK.
Offline web forms are high on our priority list as TCC has lots of
long term observers filling out longer forms on laptops with no
connectivity.
I need to write all this up at some point, but we have our first major
deployment on Saturday so I've been defining forms like a madman. The
longest one has 58 questions
Feel free to send more questions.
···
On 22 September 2011 19:05, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
> Thomas:
>
> Very nice pages. How is the html generated? What specification do
> you start from?
>
> Thanks,
> Gaetano
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there are
>> places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how to
>> set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just
>> placeholders?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On Sep 22, 3:35 pm, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> Try it again now. It works.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Samuel Mbugua wrote:
>>> > **
>>> > Thomas,
>>>
>>> > Am getting "Password is not valid" too.
>>>
>>> > On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi Thomas,
>>>
>>> > I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login: ddemo,
>>> > password: tryMEout
>>>
>>> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Sure. Tryhttps://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: tryMEout
>>>
>>> >> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
>>> >> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>>>
>>> >> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>>
>>> >> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>> >> > Hey Thomas,
>>>
>>> >> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
>>> >> > demo? What platform is it built on?
>>>
>>> >> > Matt
>>>
>>> >> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>> >> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
>>> >> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
>>> >> >> pretty nice.
>>>
>>> >> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
>>> >> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>>>
>>> >> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>>
>>> >> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>>>
>>> >> >> > Thanks for the responses.
>>>
>>> >> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
>>> >> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
>>> >> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
>>> >> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
>>> >> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
>>> >> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
>>>
>>> >> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
>>> >> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
>>> >> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
>>>
>>> >> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
>>> >> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
>>> >> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>>>
>>> >> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
>>> >> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
>>> >> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
>>> >> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>>>
>>> >> >> > Matt
>>>
>>> >> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
>>> >> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might
>>> >> want
>>> >> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
>>> >> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
>>> >> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
>>> >> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>>>
>>> >> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form
>>> >> engine
>>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
>>> >> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
>>> >> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
>>> >> question
>>> >> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
>>> >> >> >> underlying jar.
>>>
>>> >> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
>>> >> month,
>>> >> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>>>
>>> >> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
>>> >> and
>>> >> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
>>> >> >> >> sticking point for us.
>>>
>>> >> >> >> Cory
>>>
>>> >> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>>>
>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > Matt:
>>>
>>> >> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
>>> >> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
>>> >> xls2xform.opendatakit.org
>>> >> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
>>> >> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
>>> >> generate
>>> >> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
>>> >> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make
>>> >> it
>>> >> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can
>>> >> do
>>> >> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
>>> >> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
>>> >> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
>>> >> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing
>>> >> default
>>> >> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
>>> >> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
>>> >> further, I
>>> >> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how
>>> >> we
>>> >> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that
>>> >> are
>>> >> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>>>
>>> >> >> >> > Gaetano
>>>
>>> >> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
>>> >> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
>>> >> looking
>>> >> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
>>> >> interested
>>> >> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
>>> >> XForm
>>> >> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
>>> >> HTML
>>> >> >> >> >> form.
>>> >> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>>> >> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future
>>> >> of
>>> >> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>>> >> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
>>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
>>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
>>> >> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
>>> >> and
>>> >> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
>>> >> complex
>>> >> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
>>> >> same
>>> >> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it
>>> >> was
>>> >> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
>>> >> best to
>>> >> >> >> >> focus resources/effort?
>>> >> >> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both
>>> >> in
>>> >> >> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
>>> >> >> >> >> - Do others agree?
>>> >> >> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
>>> >> >> >> >> - Where would you start?
>>> >> >> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
>>> >> >> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>>> >> >> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form
>>> >> w/
>>> >> >> >> >> extra JS?
>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> Thanks,
>>> >> >> >> >> Matt
>>>
>>> >> >> >> >> --
>>> >> >> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>> >> >> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> >> >> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>
>>> >> >> >> > --
>>> >> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>> >> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> >> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>
>>> >> >> > --
>>> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>
>>> > --
>>> > If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>>> > shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>>> > thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>>> > spirit will flow out to others.
>>> > --
>>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>
>>> > --
>>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>
>>> --
>>> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>>> shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>>> thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>>> spirit will flow out to others.
>>
>> --
>> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
This looks great, I'd love to take a look at the underlying
implementation. Is it open source or are there plans to open source
it?
thanks,
Cory
···
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
> The forms and questions and options and etc. are all specified via the
> same app (see Forms, Questions, Options, etc., on the menu). Those
> form definitions are then viewable via the web or in ODK.
> Authentication is also integrated for web and ODK.
>
> Offline web forms are high on our priority list as TCC has lots of
> long term observers filling out longer forms on laptops with no
> connectivity.
>
> I need to write all this up at some point, but we have our first major
> deployment on Saturday so I've been defining forms like a madman. The
> longest one has 58 questions :)
>
> Feel free to send more questions.
>
>
> On 22 September 2011 19:05, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>> Thomas:
>>
>> Very nice pages. How is the html generated? What specification do
>> you start from?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gaetano
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>> Hi Thomas,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there are
>>> places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how to
>>> set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just
>>> placeholders?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 22, 3:35 pm, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>>>> Sam,
>>>>
>>>> Try it again now. It works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Samuel Mbugua wrote:
>>>> > **
>>>> > Thomas,
>>>>
>>>> > Am getting "Password is not valid" too.
>>>>
>>>> > On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi Thomas,
>>>>
>>>> > I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login: ddemo,
>>>> > password: tryMEout
>>>>
>>>> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Sure. Tryhttps://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password: tryMEout
>>>>
>>>> >> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response ->
>>>> >> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>>>>
>>>> >> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>>>
>>>> >> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>>> >> > Hey Thomas,
>>>>
>>>> >> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see a
>>>> >> > demo? What platform is it built on?
>>>>
>>>> >> > Matt
>>>>
>>>> >> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
>>>> >> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both HTML
>>>> >> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd look
>>>> >> >> pretty nice.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the medium
>>>> >> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should collaborate.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > Thanks for the responses.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of the
>>>> >> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a paper
>>>> >> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and Word/
>>>> >> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
>>>> >> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions that
>>>> >> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
>>>> >> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is both an
>>>> >> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in reverse.
>>>> >> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're putting
>>>> >> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support conditional
>>>> >> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission with some
>>>> >> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why there
>>>> >> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > Matt
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you might
>>>> >> want
>>>> >> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based ways to
>>>> >> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython and
>>>> >> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and one
>>>> >> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying form
>>>> >> engine
>>>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all the
>>>> >> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the browser.
>>>> >> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form engine
>>>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
>>>> >> question
>>>> >> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to the
>>>> >> >> >> underlying jar.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the next
>>>> >> month,
>>>> >> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the duplication
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always been a
>>>> >> >> >> sticking point for us.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> Cory
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> > Matt:
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been considering
>>>> >> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
>>>> >> xls2xform.opendatakit.org
>>>> >> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate HTML5-compatible
>>>> >> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
>>>> >> generate
>>>> >> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What needs to be
>>>> >> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how to make
>>>> >> it
>>>> >> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that people can
>>>> >> do
>>>> >> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it to
>>>> >> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute the
>>>> >> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some ideas for
>>>> >> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for computing
>>>> >> default
>>>> >> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to next
>>>> >> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
>>>> >> further, I
>>>> >> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans for how
>>>> >> we
>>>> >> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms that
>>>> >> are
>>>> >> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> > Gaetano
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an HTML/printable
>>>> >> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I started
>>>> >> looking
>>>> >> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd be
>>>> >> interested
>>>> >> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you build
>>>> >> XForm
>>>> >> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a fillable
>>>> >> HTML
>>>> >> >> >> >> form.
>>>> >> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
>>>> >> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the future
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
>>>> >> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be directly
>>>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms may be
>>>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
>>>> >> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is complex
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very powerful
>>>> >> complex
>>>> >> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for the
>>>> >> same
>>>> >> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I assume it
>>>> >> was
>>>> >> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the time.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> >> 3. I'm wondering where people see things going and where it is
>>>> >> best to
>>>> >> >> >> >> focus resources/effort?
>>>> >> >> >> >> - It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature, both
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> >> >> >> terms of effort and benefit.
>>>> >> >> >> >> - Do others agree?
>>>> >> >> >> >> - How big is a job is this?
>>>> >> >> >> >> - Where would you start?
>>>> >> >> >> >> - with something like Orbeon?
>>>> >> >> >> >> - Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
>>>> >> >> >> >> - Some transform layer for making an XForm and HTML5 form
>>>> >> w/
>>>> >> >> >> >> extra JS?
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> >> Feedback and thoughts are appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> >> >> >> Matt
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> >> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> >> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> >> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>>
>>>> >> >> >> > --
>>>> >> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>>
>>>> >> >> > --
>>>> >> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>>
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> >> Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>>
>>>> > --
>>>> > If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>>>> > shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>>>> > thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>>>> > spirit will flow out to others.
>>>> > --
>>>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>>
>>>> > --
>>>> > Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>>> > Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>>> > Options:http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we
>>>> shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if our
>>>> thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the same
>>>> spirit will flow out to others.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>>> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
>> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>>
>
> --
> Post: opendatakit@googlegroups.com
> Unsubscribe: opendatakit+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Options: http://groups.google.com/group/opendatakit?hl=en
>
Yaw and others: I had to take down the demo site b/c our server plan has
limited memory and we're doing an active deployment tomorrow. I will try to
rectify this early next week. Thanks again for your interest.
···
On 23 September 2011 09:21, Cory Zue wrote:
Hi Thomas,
This looks great, I'd love to take a look at the underlying
implementation. Is it open source or are there plans to open source
it?
The forms and questions and options and etc. are all specified via the
same app (see Forms, Questions, Options, etc., on the menu). Those
form definitions are then viewable via the web or in ODK.
Authentication is also integrated for web and ODK.
Offline web forms are high on our priority list as TCC has lots of
long term observers filling out longer forms on laptops with no
connectivity.
I need to write all this up at some point, but we have our first major
deployment on Saturday so I've been defining forms like a madman. The
longest one has 58 questions
Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there are
places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how to
set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just
placeholders?
We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both
HTML
and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd
look
pretty nice.
We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the
medium
term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should
collaborate.
One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of
the
form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a
paper
version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and
Word/
Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions
that
head in that direction are appealing.
So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is
both an
advantage and disadvantage.
What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in
reverse.
Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're
putting
together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support
conditional
logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission
with some
control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why
there
isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you
might
want
to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based
ways to
play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython
and
django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and
one
optimized for keyboard entry.
The good thing about them is that they use the underlying
form
engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all
the
underlying functionality of the clients is available in the
browser.
The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form
engine
inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
question
is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to
the
underlying jar.
We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the
next
month,
but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the
duplication
and
recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always
been a
sticking point for us.
this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been
considering
creating a new capability for xls2xform (see xls2xform.opendatakit.org
and childcount.org) that would have it generate
HTML5-compatible
Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
generate
Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What
needs to be
figured out is the template for each question type and how
to make
it
easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that
people can
do
more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it
to
eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute
the
Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some
ideas for
making each question an object that has methods for
computing
default
values, checking constraints, which question to advance to
next
(data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
further, I
would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans
for how
we
could get this done. I think the first part, making forms
that
are
viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
I've been doing some more looking into creating an
HTML/printable
version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I
started
looking
more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd
be
interested
in getting feedback on:
Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you
build
XForm
based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a
fillable
HTML
form.
Have other used this or looked into it?
What would it take to make this work with ODK?
XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the
future
of
web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be
directly
incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms
may be
incorporated into standard web browsers
Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is
complex
and
forms are harder to create, but you can create very
powerful
complex
forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for
the
same
level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I
assume it
was
choose because it was the open standard of choice at the
time.
Thoughts?
I'm wondering where people see things going and where
it is
best to
focus resources/effort?
It seems an HTML client for ODK would be big feature,
both
in
terms of effort and benefit.
Do others agree?
How big is a job is this?
Where would you start?
with something like Orbeon?
Javascript libraries that interpret XForms markup
Some transform layer for making an XForm and
HTML5 form
w/
extra JS?
--
If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of
others, we
shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if
our
thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the
same
spirit will flow out to others.
--
If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of
others, we
shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; but if
our
thoughts dwell upon the wondrous love and pity of Christ for us, the
same
spirit will flow out to others.
Sorry, I go sidetracked last week. A few suggestions regarding the
implementation and UI. I like the way you can have "saved" questions
and option sets. A similar idea has been suggested by some of our
survey creators. If they have 5 choice questions, with the same 5
options, it is tedious in ODK Build. However, I do like how easy it is
in ODK Build to add a new question, re-order, etc. From what I
remember with the UI in your demo it the flow was that you needed to
first create option sets, then questions, then add it to the survey.
Also, if you wanted to have a similar question, but with slightly
different wording or options, you would need a whole new question.
What I think would be great, at least for the way we have been doing
surveys, is being able to quickly copy questions/option sets. I guess
there is a chance that you actually want to make sure it is the exact
same question/options, if you are doing comparison across surveys. So
maybe you need something like copy-new and copy-use options. Am I
making any sense?
Matt
···
On Sep 24, 12:22 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
> Yaw and others: I had to take down the demo site b/c our server plan has
> limited memory and we're doing an active deployment tomorrow. I will try to
> rectify this early next week. Thanks again for your interest.
>
> On 23 September 2011 09:21, Cory Zue wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Thomas,
>
> > This looks great, I'd love to take a look at the underlying
> > implementation. Is it open source or are there plans to open source
> > it?
>
> > thanks,
> > Cory
>
> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Thomas Smyth wrote:
> > > The forms and questions and options and etc. are all specified via the
> > > same app (see Forms, Questions, Options, etc., on the menu). Those
> > > form definitions are then viewable via the web or in ODK.
> > > Authentication is also integrated for web and ODK.
>
> > > Offline web forms are high on our priority list as TCC has lots of
> > > long term observers filling out longer forms on laptops with no
> > > connectivity.
>
> > > I need to write all this up at some point, but we have our first major
> > > deployment on Saturday so I've been defining forms like a madman. The
> > > longest one has 58 questions :)
>
> > > Feel free to send more questions.
>
> > > On 22 September 2011 19:05, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
> > >> Thomas:
>
> > >> Very nice pages. How is the html generated? What specification do
> > >> you start from?
>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Gaetano
>
> > >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Matt Langeman wrote:
> > >>> Hi Thomas,
>
> > >>> Thanks for the demo info. I was able to try it. I noticed there are
> > >>> places for conditional logic, but I wasn't able to figure out how to
> > >>> set up that functionality. Is it in place or are those just
> > >>> placeholders?
>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Matt
>
> > >>> On Sep 22, 3:35 pm, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
> > >>>> Sam,
>
> > >>>> Try it again now. It works.
>
> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Samuel Mbugua wrote:
> > >>>> > **
> > >>>> > Thomas,
>
> > >>>> > Am getting "Password is not valid" too.
>
> > >>>> > On 09/22/2011 09:56 PM, Daniel Kayiwa wrote:
>
> > >>>> > Hi Thomas,
>
> > >>>> > I get a "Password is not valid" error message when i use: login:
> > ddemo,
> > >>>> > password: tryMEout
>
> > >>>> > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Thomas Smyth < thomas.sm...@gatech.edu>wrote:
>
> > >>>> >> Sure. Tryhttps://secure2.cceom.org, login: ddemo, password:
> > tryMEout
>
> > >>>> >> To see what a form looks like, go Responses -> Create New Response
> > ->
> > >>>> >> Choose Starbucks v2 -> Click Go
>
> > >>>> >> Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> > >>>> >> On 22 September 2011 10:34, Matt Langeman wrote:
> > >>>> >> > Hey Thomas,
>
> > >>>> >> > I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Any change I could see
> > a
> > >>>> >> > demo? What platform is it built on?
>
> > >>>> >> > Matt
>
> > >>>> >> > On Sep 22, 9:58 am, Thomas Smyth wrote:
> > >>>> >> >> We have built a system here at the Carter Center that does both
> > HTML
> > >>>> >> >> and ODK/XForms. I haven't tried printing them but I'd say they'd
> > look
> > >>>> >> >> pretty nice.
>
> > >>>> >> >> We are also planning offline fillable functionality in the
> > medium
> > >>>> >> >> term. Also planning to open source it. Perhaps we should
> > collaborate.
>
> > >>>> >> >> On 22 September 2011 09:48, Matt Langeman
> > >>>> >> >> > Hi Cory and Gaetano,
>
> > >>>> >> >> > Thanks for the responses.
>
> > >>>> >> >> > One of my immediate goals is to create a printable version of
> > the
> > >>>> >> >> > form, allowing the survey to be used with ODK Collect and a
> > paper
> > >>>> >> >> > version without having to manage two copies (ODK Build and
> > Word/
> > >>>> >> >> > Excel). Long term however, I see a fillable HTML5 version that
> > >>>> >> >> > supports offline entry as being very useful, so if I solutions
> > that
> > >>>> >> >> > head in that direction are appealing.
>
> > >>>> >> >> > So what I'm looking for is a bit different than touchforms and
> > >>>> >> >> > typeforms. I can see how using the underlying form engine is
> > both an
> > >>>> >> >> > advantage and disadvantage.
>
> > >>>> >> >> > What I want actually seems similar to xls2xforms, but in
> > reverse.
> > >>>> >> >> > Gaetano, how complete is the conversion structure you're
> > putting
> > >>>> >> >> > together? Does it support conditional logic, validation, etc.
>
> > >>>> >> >> > I'm still wondering about Orbeon. It appeared to support
> > conditional
> > >>>> >> >> > logic, validation, calculated fields, web based submission
> > with some
> > >>>> >> >> > control over layout and PDF form generation. Any reason why
> > there
> > >>>> >> >> > isn't ODK/Orbeon integration?
>
> > >>>> >> >> > Matt
>
> > >>>> >> >> > On Sep 21, 6:13 pm, Cory Zue wrote:
> > >>>> >> >> >> If you are just trying to get forms entered on the web you
> > might
> > >>>> >> want
> > >>>> >> >> >> to look at touchforms and typeforms[1] which are web-based
> > ways to
> > >>>> >> >> >> play forms one-question-per-screen in a browser using jython
> > and
> > >>>> >> >> >> django. There are two UIs, one optimized for touchscreens and
> > one
> > >>>> >> >> >> optimized for keyboard entry.
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> The good thing about them is that they use the underlying
> > form
> > >>>> >> engine
> > >>>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means all
> > the
> > >>>> >> >> >> underlying functionality of the clients is available in the
> > browser.
> > >>>> >> >> >> The bad thing about them is that they use the underlying form
> > engine
> > >>>> >> >> >> inside JavaRosa and ODK to render the form, which means every
> > >>>> >> question
> > >>>> >> >> >> is an ajax request, and you need a web server to call out to
> > the
> > >>>> >> >> >> underlying jar.
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> We are working on multi-question-per-screen support in the
> > next
> > >>>> >> month,
> > >>>> >> >> >> but it will still not be a pure HTML5/JavaScript app.
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> I love the idea of something 100% client side, but the
> > duplication
> > >>>> >> and
> > >>>> >> >> >> recreation of the forms engine underneath the hood has always
> > been a
> > >>>> >> >> >> sticking point for us.
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> Cory
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> [1]https://github.com/dimagi/touchforms
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Gaetano Borriello wrote:
> > >>>> >> >> >> > Matt:
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> > this is an excellent line of thinking. We have been
> > considering
> > >>>> >> >> >> > creating a new capability for xls2xform (see
> > >>>> >> xls2xform.opendatakit.org
> > >>>> >> >> >> > and childcount.org) that would have it generate
> > HTML5-compatible
> > >>>> >> >> >> > Javascript from the same specification that we know use to
> > >>>> >> generate
> > >>>> >> >> >> > Xforms. Most of the structure is there to this. What
> > needs to be
> > >>>> >> >> >> > figured out is the template for each question type and how
> > to make
> > >>>> >> it
> > >>>> >> >> >> > easy to include arbitrary code (unlike Xforms) so that
> > people can
> > >>>> >> do
> > >>>> >> >> >> > more flexible forms with arbitrary behavior. Our hope it
> > to
> > >>>> >> >> >> > eventually have a version of ODK that would simply execute
> > the
> > >>>> >> >> >> > Javascript in a WebView. We have been playing with some
> > ideas for
> > >>>> >> >> >> > making each question an object that has methods for
> > computing
> > >>>> >> default
> > >>>> >> >> >> > values, checking constraints, which question to advance to
> > next
> > >>>> >> >> >> > (data-driven gotos), etc. If you would like to pursue this
> > >>>> >> further, I
> > >>>> >> >> >> > would welcome the opportunity to make some specific plans
> > for how
> > >>>> >> we
> > >>>> >> >> >> > could get this done. I think the first part, making forms
> > that
> > >>>> >> are
> > >>>> >> >> >> > viewable in a browser should be relatively straightforward.
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> > Gaetano
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Matt Langeman < mklange...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> I've been doing some more looking into creating an
> > HTML/printable
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> version of a ODK Form. Since ODK is based on XForms, I
> > started
> > >>>> >> looking
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> more into XForms and HTML. A few things I found that I'd
> > be
> > >>>> >> interested
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> in getting feedback on:
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> 1. Orbeon: seems like a pretty slick tool that lets you
> > build
> > >>>> >> XForm
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> based forms. It supports display as HTML and PDF and a
> > fillable
> > >>>> >> HTML
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> form.
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - Have other used this or looked into it?
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - What would it take to make this work with ODK?
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> 2. XForms vs HTML5 Forms. I ran into discussion about the
> > future
> > >>>> >> of
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> web forms and XForms vs HTML5 Forms. My main take aways.
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - Future in web browsers: XForms will likely never be
> > directly
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers while HTML5 forms
> > may be
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> incorporated into standard web browsers
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - Power and Complexity vs Simplicity: XForms spec is
> > complex
> > >>>> >> and
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> forms are harder to create, but you can create very
> > powerful
> > >>>> >> complex
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> forms. HTML5 Forms are more simple, but does not allow for
> > the
> > >>>> >> same
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> level of power-complexity in the actual forms.
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - ODK does not support all of the XForms spec, but I
> > assume it
> > >>>> >> was
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> choose because it was the open standard of choice at the
> > time.
>
> > >>>> >> >> >> >> - Thoughts?
>
> ...
>
> read more »
